[00:00:41] Alright, welcome back to Rise To Liberty Podcast I hope everyone enjoyed the new opening, put a lot of work into that So I thought it was pretty badass But today's guest is Jose Galasson of the No Way Jose Podcast Real quick, before we get into that though I just want to tell everyone to go hop over to nadeushaveco.com Use promo code RISE15, get 15% off

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[00:01:40] Nadeushaveco, the way to go Right, right Absolutely Without a doubt I mean, and they have the balls to sponsor both of us Real quick, I don't know if it's just me And I can't see the live chat in my setup But it seems like you're coming in a little bit hot A little hot I feel like I should have said something before we started But I didn't notice it until just now So How's that? That still seems hot to me You can ask the chat I mean, they'll be able to tell better than I can

[00:02:09] But it comes off pretty hot Keep on talking Let's see Chat, let me know How that is working for you Down, down, down, down There you go That's not normal Alright How does that sound? Better? Yeah, better Alright Alright Alright Okay Well, with that Let's just jump straight into it So, first and foremost

[00:02:38] I mean, this is the first time you've been on my show So, do you kind of want to just give a rundown Who you are And Like, what your show's about Kind of how you got into all of this Yeah Jose Agalison A podcaster I guess I dabble in research I get this I get this a lot From like A lot of the researcher types They shit on me For not being a researcher And it's like Well, not really But I have dabbled So I can see why people can see

[00:03:08] See that At some point I would like to dig more into research But I have dabbled a little bit I have a Particularly in this topic Is probably where I've dabbled the most In actually getting involved In the Doing some real work In involved to it In some actual research And in a certain sense I guess all of us podcasters Are researchers We're just I don't know Finding stuff we find interesting And sharing it with the world So that's really all I'm doing And it seems like I found a semi-decent following along the way I've had

[00:03:38] I guess Semi-decent What you could call success In the realm of podcasting You know I'm by no means Fucking In the context of what podcasting is So I've had a fun time But I kind of started out I cut my teeth on theory Libertarian theory Is kind of what I started out on a lot Probably first couple hundred episodes

[00:04:08] Were probably almost exclusively Were like This was a This No Way Jose Was a Theory podcast And then at some point Really the major turning point Was when I covered The Oklahoma City bombing Is that I think that's when I really just I don't know Something about that drove my interest I just I don't know I think it was maybe just a sign of times To a lot going on I just lost interest in the theory side of things Which I'm kind of ADD and obsessive like that So I'm sure maybe I'll come back to it at some point But you know

[00:04:37] I kind of dropped it But I So I mean I leave it I leave it open to come back to it That's the beautiful nature Of having a podcast That's called something like No Way Jose Like I haven't tied myself to anything I can talk about whatever the hell I want But as of right now This show is pretty much A parapolitical podcast I do a daily Live stream Kind of like a morning show thing It's at 10 a.m. Eastern I say daily But it's like Monday through Friday You know weekends are kind of like bonuses

[00:05:06] We do those quite frequently That's me and my buddy Austin Who is more of a researcher Less of a podcaster I'm more of a podcaster Less of a researcher Together we make a podcaster researcher together So he is He's their Like kind of research guy But he Me and him both host those morning dumps So we'll kind of alternate Or do them together Depending on Who's available That's just a hangout thing So that's just kind of a hanging out I call it a dump Because it's kind of like a research dump Of sorts But it's also like a morning show

[00:05:36] So we kind of dig through the latest And then also kind of maybe some old research And then Yeah we have a weekly live show we do And then we have our solo work Which is kind of like you know Stuff like I've been having you on lately To cover the false memory syndrome We have a whole series on that I've kind of made a knack Of doing a lot of series And a lot of those are with Austin Like we mentioned earlier I've done like a Finder series with him And you know we've done quite a few We did Jonestown

[00:06:05] So I mean he and him have done a lot of work together We've kind of been a little bit of a team We have our own separate platforms But we do essentially two shows together That go on both on our platforms So we have our own solo work as well But he's more of the you know Produce solo research work Whereas I do more like I'm more of the podcaster interviews Discussions stuff All of those like So you can kind of get your fill of both of us From both of our platforms

[00:06:34] With him and he's over on the Underclass podcast But two out of three of his shows Feature on my channel as well So and vice versa with my stuff So that's that's kind of who I am I guess I mean I guess I didn't really say at all Who I am particularly I guess if there's anyone Who actually gives a shit about that I mean I don't know I'm a dad A husband I mean I have a I have two teenage girls Well one teenage girl One's about to be a teenager Somewhat soon I did I was active duty military For 11 years And I got out

[00:07:03] During the time While I was a podcaster So it was around that like 2020 time frame What was it 2021 2022 I forget the exact year But either way Roughly in that time frame Is when I got out That was when I was podcasting So I don't know I guess those are the kind of Significant things to know about me Not really much special about me I did get really Sucked into The Oklahoma City Ballroom It's kind of what most people Know me before I guess Not most people I mean I say that like As if a bunch of people know me But I don't know

[00:07:33] That would be probably People that have I've done a lot of coverage In the Oklahoma City bombing But in general I do a lot of talking On parapolitical stuff Like we're getting ready To go on We were talking before We started getting ready To go on Jake Shields And we're going to talk about We're going to do Almost like a two episode Series of sorts I think Starting with Oklahoma City bombing And ending with Like you know The first one Like Oklahoma City bombing The second one Ending with like Finders And Dutro

[00:08:02] Type stuff And so kind of weaving From one to the other To the big The larger narrative Being Gladio I mean we've gone We went on Tripoli show recently Kind of laid out The theory of everything With Gladio So I don't know That's just kind of Our wheelhouse Just a parapolitical Funness So I guess Parapolitical is just A cleaned up way Of saying conspiracy Really But I feel like It leads to this flavor Too of like We usually try to Like to come from Here's the sources Type angle Like it doesn't mean I'm going to be perfect About every little thing

[00:08:32] We are running a show To some extent There will be a little bit Of Info Wars vibe To it But for the most part We do try to come From a place of truth And not truth TM Like a truth Oh here's this document Here's this Oh you gave some pushback Here's this other document Oh maybe I'm wrong Just that kind of perspective So that's who I am That's what I'm about I don't know Yeah that's a really I don't have a whole lot To say for myself Aside from that But I don't know We have fun

[00:09:02] On our show You know We hang out We cover fun stuff So good place For current events And past events I would think So but yeah Right Yeah I mean I've totally made Totally made The morning dump Part of my daily routine At this point So it's just I'm not a big fan Of a lot of morning shows And now I finally found one That I like with you guys And you know Austin's been on Been on my show

[00:09:32] A couple of times now To talk about the Vegas shooting And our first episode We kind of just touched on Like lightly touched on Like a bunch of different Topics and stuff So you know I kind of actually have Like the same arc as you Like obviously with the name Like Rise to Liberty Like I kind of started With libertarian stuff And Started 2021 Or 22 I don't know

[00:10:01] I started around the same time As Kyle Motovic And Him and I Like launched Like within Maybe like a week or two Of each other And It's just kind of interesting I started because I saw like this attack On free speech and stuff And I was like Even if the market Is oversaturated I don't really care We should just flood The market with as much Free speech as possible And then I started Realizing just like How lame Libertarianism is

[00:10:31] The ideas are great The people suck And Yeah So I've just I'm just way more Interested in Things that I've been Interested long before Libertarianism If we're gonna do Origins It's been a while Since I've done that one And that's a That's a deep lore That's kind of fun I guess Kind of what What started me Podcasting Was I actually When I first started It was Peak Peak Peak COVID I guess

[00:11:00] Peak lockdowns Like when we were at the top Like I was I was reeling I was losing my mind I was freaking the fuck out Like everything That I had read about Was coming true I was not prepared In my life I was still active To be military Like I was not I was not ready For the boogaloo To go down Like that's like That's kind of the way I saw things And So one thing That we were doing Is this before We saw the huge Tech censorship Facebook used to be A really great tool Especially for community Building For groups

[00:11:30] And we took that And we applied That concept And we're trying to Apply like Network concepts And we created What we called The liberty movement And this was an idea And we We also had this concept Just kind of I guess Rooted a little bit Like agorist type concepts We had this idea That we thought Like the political Is what kind of Really caused the issue With When it comes to Libertarians generally Or liberty minded people And so that was kind of like Hey We're not This is just a group For you guys to hang out Whatever

[00:11:59] This doesn't explicitly Vote for this guy Vote for that guy Whatever You guys talk about it But essentially the idea Was just Facebook groups And from there There was almost like A network concept to it Like we had Different groups That were for different Concepts And then groups That were more local Like so And then we even had All the way down to Countries We had country Ones We had it like Very well organized Down to like Countries States And so the idea Was you were just Trying to create it So people had like Real world networks To kind of build Meet up And stuff like that And that just

[00:12:29] Kind of ended Honestly Really We actually I thought we were Really making some Good headway And a lot of Cool things were happening We had a couple Local meetups Where I was at And we kind of Made some local Chapters And other places Did as well But it did Kind of fall apart I really blame The Facebook censorship For that honestly It became Facebook became Completely untenable And it happened So quickly It was like We weren't able To really Because we did Try to shift To like MeWe And other Shit like that But anyways The podcast Was actually Born out of that It was part of

[00:12:59] A kind of Promotional Like idea To kind of Promote it And also Kind of Promote the Concept Because I was Also like I was doing My own show To kind of Like promote The idea But really What I was Trying to do Was feature Other people's Shows Especially Startup shows Or people With similar Concepts And feature Them on the Doing Anyways Long story Short That became Untenable The other Show Kind of I kind of Found I Was liking Podcasting But it was Born completely

[00:13:28] A promotional Thing It was kind Of dragging You know Kicking and Screaming Because like Other admins In the group Were like Hey this is Totally something You should do You would be Good at it You're good About you Like to talk About these Things And uh The rest Is kind of History And then over Time It like The what Was called The liberty Movement Which is the Original YouTube channel Slowly And then I Had no way Jose It was a show That featured On the liberty Movement Eventually No way Jose Took off And the liberty Movement Just kind of

[00:13:58] Fizzled out So But you can Blame Zuckerberg For that one That we don't Have this Illustrious Beautiful Thriving Liberty Movement Thing So it was Actually kind Of popping A little bit For there For a minute We had a lot Of stuff happening But it Yeah Shit got rough But that's Yeah I don't know I just I don't know Why I felt Like sharing That Right No And it's It's weird I feel like I have Almost the Exact same

[00:14:28] Arc Because I mean I was Doing I'm actually Still county Chair Of my Local county LP It ended Up disbanding And then I came in Started the Whole thing Built it From the Ground up And did That for Like two And a Half years And it Just It's Just Done Now I mean And I don't Know Nobody Really gives A shit

[00:14:57] You know And so It started Off really Strong People were Coming out Doing Things And then People want You to Be doing Something But you Have to Have people To do Things And we Couldn't Get people To come Out And so It was Like this Like weird Vicious Circle Not being Able to Get people To come Out more Than an Hour Once a Month And it's Like okay Well this Just isn't Worth it There's Better ways To spread Liberty

[00:15:28] And as far As the Podcasting Goes Like I'm With you I enjoy Podcasting But You know I enjoy The ideas It's just Every time I cover Anything Like specifically Libertarian Viewership Just tanks Every time And it's Like oh Well I mean I'm Interested In more Things than Just that And actually With your Show With your Oklahoma City

[00:15:59] I guess Your Series I don't Know why It was so Hard for me To figure Out that Word But your Oklahoma Series I had Actually never Thought Of Oklahoma City Like in That way At all I mean I've been A I guess Conspiracy Theorist Since Maybe junior High You know Like that's When I started Really getting Into it That's when I Found Alex Jones

[00:16:28] So pretty Much since Then I've Been Into all Sort of Topics But I Had never Thought of Oklahoma City Until I Saw your Show And then I just Binge Watched All Of Your Episodes And then Just Consumed Everything That I Could Possibly Get my Hands On So to Kind of Move things Along Where did You find Oklahoma City Like where Where did That come Along

[00:16:59] Well I mean I think I was like Kind of Sort of A little Bit of Awareness I mean I really Didn't Have Any Sort of Real I guess Awareness Of Oklahoma City Bombing Before Really My Coverage Started So I think That's Part of What Made My Coverage A little Bit Unique Is That I Think It Was Like I Was Kind of Learning Along With The Audience Through It All And I Got Essentially An Expert On To Cover It With Me But What Really Got Me Started Was An Edit

[00:17:29] Which I've Told This Story Many Times There Was A Jinx Edit Crack Connoisseur On Twitter I Think Is I Don't Think His Account Exists Anymore I Assume He Deactivated Or Something I Doubt He Got Nuked But Anyways He I

[00:18:05] I Know It's Kind Of Kind Of Like Your Intro At Beginning Here It's Kind Of A Different Audio And Video In Or Splice With You Know A lot Maybe Like Different Documents Or Usually Telling A Story I My God And So That's When

[00:18:35] The Terrence Yigi Story That Really Just Kind Of Like Holy Moly And I Just Kind Institute Oklahoma City Bombing

[00:19:05] Archive Which That Is The Largest Public Oklahoma City Bombing Archive Of I Guess Public Documents Just Different Any Documents Or Anything Concerning Different Articles Whatever Anything You Think Of It's A Repository Of Information For That It's The Largest Public One Out There And That's Hosted By The Libertarian Institute Which Is Scott Horton's Website So It's

[00:19:35] Richard Booth The One Who Handles Manages It Pretty Much Entirely And It's Essentially Google For Oklahoma City Bombing So You Go In There You Type In Yee Key And Boom It Brings Up All The Different Documents And Articles And Whatever If 302 Reports Whatever Concerning It Him You Anything Relating To That

[00:20:32] So

[00:21:03] really aware there's so much to this and it is a lot um so most people aren't even aware it's also kind of one that's at it's it's due its time so it's like at that moment uh you know the the rhythm that like circular like how time works with these deep events and you know when we uh you know when we start getting crazy disclosure or public awareness raising it just seems we're at that

[00:21:29] spot where it's supposed to be that scav's supposed to be getting picked that uh that bandage is supposed to be taken off around right now that's what i think shit is really supposed to break is around right now and it's a kind of a little bit of a bummer that i think a lot of people have for gone it almost got uh overshadowed by 9-11 uh so but i i think there's just so much in it uh which i mean some of which i think it's a it's also the being more niche makes it more fun uh in a certain

[00:21:57] sense fun i guess is the wrong word but uh so for you know open for research because yeah but like 9-11 it's kind of like it's boring like i don't know that's kind of how i feel about it i just i'm not interested in 9-11 research i'm just not it bores me i don't know why it's just because it's like everyone talks about 9-11 i've heard people talk about 9-11 so many times i hear 9-11 i just go but i don't know for me i don't know maybe i'm just a hipster like that here home city bombing

[00:22:22] i'm like okay but anyways point being is this it's at that time and i think the old being overshadowed by the 9-11 actually might be a little bit of its own secret weapon that uh people are kind of like expecting maybe some sort of push for 9-11 still when it's like nope you know got you sucker this one's hiding the wing uh but anyways i'm kind of rambling now um but yeah i'm a story i care about a lot and it's just that's kind of what i how i got dragged into it was the

[00:22:48] story of yiki and i i think it's really um for me with yiki's story it really is just a i don't know i just uh you know i was able to sympathize with a essentially a company man of sorts that was you know at that like midway level of his career that clearly was running into issues with the trot brass trying to do the right thing and just really just getting butt up against by the reality of the beast that is the lefiathan of government uh i can very much sympathize with it

[00:23:17] that is my story and many other people that i've known who have like spent i don't know a year in the realm of a decade in government go oh my god this is soul crushing you feel trapped uh so but i mean luckily i've been able to kind of uh you know i was able to i was sort of trapped but i've been able to kind of somewhat leverage the limited success i've had from podcasting to be able to i don't

[00:23:41] know not be in the poor house so thank you guys for that uh so yeah it's been cool uh like i said uh you know gonna i'll be going to jake shields and stuff soon so you know i've been you guys have been good to me i mean i'm not i'm not rich by any means but i'm doing okay so i appreciate you guys's support out there and honestly i gotta say i i think it's super rad i love seeing my friends uh get out there and make something of themselves especially something they like doing

[00:24:08] uh success for one is success for all um and you know seeing because i mean i've i've followed you pretty much since you started the oklahoma city series and so just to see like your progression it's just really cool and i'm i'm really proud of you i think that's super awesome and it's awesome to get you on my show finally so oh yeah glad to be here but with that um let's jump into oklahoma city

[00:24:36] um just a little bit um i actually do have one of these edits um that i was going to play real quick just to give kind of people an idea of what we're talking about um so let's let's go ahead and play that um i actually have two we'll play one a little bit later i have i have uh i have a yeeky one as well so but uh this first one is just kind of a general uh okc and uh we'll we'll go from there

[00:25:09] oh tedious process removing the debris and it's just it's unreal if anybody knows of anything this is my mom she's 47 oh my friends are missing we've checked all the hospitals we've left your picture everywhere that we really feel in our hearts that was her that we saw shakened disillusioned back to the end and then we're hopefully gonna set in this time

[00:25:38] we will open these things up more thoroughly and we just probably come in right now here's all the house shaking disillusioned that could happen i feel like this one big thing really loud i don't wonder the desk and then all i go

[00:26:08] i couldn't imagine what they did to those people oh my god

[00:26:44] so that's uh one of the many okc um schizo clips or twitter clips that you see floating around um so just real quick to give a quick rundown of at least the official story um for anyone who might not know um on april 19th 1995 which means we are coming up on the 30th anniversary this year uh timothy mcveigh

[00:27:12] a 26 year old us army veteran uh with anti-government views detonated a truck bomb outside the alfred p uh mariah federal building in oklahoma city oklahoma the bomb made of a no ammonium nitrate fertilizer uh and diesel fuel was packed into a rented rider truck parked in a drop-off zone at 9.02 a.m. it exploded

[00:27:40] killing 168 people including 19 children and injuring over 600 the blast destroyed a third of the building and damaged hundreds of nearby structures mcveigh acted primarily alone driven by rage over uh... federal actions at ruby ridge and waco uh... which he saw as overreaches of power terry nichols an army acquaintance assisted by helping acquire materials

[00:28:08] and build the bomb at nichols farm in kansas mcveigh was arrested 90 minutes after the attack during a traffic stop linked by evidence like bomb residue on his clothes and a rental receipt nichols surrendered days later the fbi concluded it was a domestic terrorist act uh... with no broader conspiracy mcveigh was uh... convicted on federal murder charges in 1997

[00:28:36] and executed in 2001 nichols received life without parole for federal and state bombing related charges the attack remains the deadliest act of domestic terrorism in u.s. history so that's that's a quick rundown um of the official story um... so i guess where was it for you where the the first piece of information where you said oh i'm gonna be

[00:29:06] this is bullshit well for me as i was working from yiki like as i said so i started from yiki i think there's different entrance points for different people uh... i think it's different strokes different folks i think it really maybe it's a matter of uh... you know i don't know maybe if you're more of a uh... i don't know an emotional mind or a uh... or an analytical mind i think uh... the analytical mind will tend to get caught up with uh... john doe 2 surveillance tape stuff like that

[00:29:34] but i i think uh... the uh... i think uh... the emotional mind or maybe there's a better word i'm looking for here but we'll probably get caught up more in the trinidoo and the yeekies and in those sort of story and that that's what did it for me uh... i think it's just my uh... really the as i said before i can empathize with the situation and blood the the father the thing is really gets to me uh... so i don't know the that that sort of thing tugs on my heart strings a lot so that's what really did to me but really yeeky story just i mean this guy that's the

[00:30:04] uh... i mean was reporting to everybody and there's a lot of people claiming around him that he was having issues with the brass around him that he really just didn't buy the story and then this guy you know ends up dead in a field uh... about a year and some change after the bombing after all of this after fighting with the brass after you know being you know there you know there's a uh... there's a letter with a with a another person researching these things but he's found in a um... he's found he's found in a uh...

[00:30:34] uh... in a field a mile or half a mile to a mile and a half away from his car which is covered in blood uh... and he has you know what looks like lacerations on his like wrists his neck he has blood and you know looks like grass packed into wounds uh... i mean he's he's got a you know gunshot wound to the head going at a downward angle i mean there's just so much going on here uh... that it's just it's just bizarre i mean it looks i mean there's more to this

[00:31:04] story but it's it's very clearly this guy was killed and uh... you know you look into it more and you're like why was this guy killed what were they covering up i mean that is and that is probably i guess probably uh... i think one of the things that brings people back to that story over and over again when it comes to yiki what did he see there's a lot of people who claim different things his sister lashawn claimed that he he said something along the lines of seeing evidence of things blowing out as opposed to in the implication there being you know bombs in the building as opposed to you know

[00:31:34] the official narrative being bombs outside the building because if you have a truck bomb is on the outside of the building is therefore blowing at like towards the building blowing in uh... as opposed to blowing out which you have bombs inside of it so... there's that i mean there's other things that uh... you know people claim i know i had when i had tanya on this on the show she brought up the atf uh... shenanigans and how none of the atf were in the building and then there were all these crazy stories

[00:32:04] you know came out about these stories you know stories of heroics from the atf how they actually were in the building and they did this that this all the different all the the rolodex of cover stories uh... you know that there you know look and it looks like in all that that it looked like uh... this uh... the pandemonium from the start there was you know there were there were reasons to believe that between terry and um... i always mess up his name the doctor

[00:32:34] i always want to say jolly west but obviously that's a different doctor but it's the um... what is his name and then i'll sometimes i want to say the uh... chaplain poe because that's the that's another birth story a name in there but that's not right either but there was a there was another doctor who was working with uh... yeekee who also died under extremely suspicious circumstances so uh... and the the key point with him and uh... and yeekee this doctor and him is that they were one of the first peoples on this one of the first people on the scene

[00:33:02] the doctor is helping provide you know health uh... or help uh... or emergency care for people affected on the scene terry was obviously one of the first people there uh... they were trying to get the doctor to provide treatment to atf individuals as the claim that didn't need it that obviously the implication there to make it look like oh you know now you have documented oh i provided medical care for so and so oh he was here uh... providing some sort of documentation so

[00:33:30] there's that uh... they think there might be something in the in the realm of there that apparently terry got into a big argument with some of the one of the atf guys there as a result of all that essentially he seemed to think there were shenanigans afoot and it's like why are you guys who clearly weren't here trying to make it look like you were uh... what is going on so apparently he was spooked from the jump so i think there were probably a number of things that tipped terry off to his going on and from there he started doing his own investigation

[00:34:01] and i think uh... that only uh... that only that ended up leading to his demise so but at the same time it did i guess kind of wake up a lot of us along the way since you know here i am and uh... terry was my entry point into the story so so i mean this is kind of a stupid question but do you believe um that yeeke was very clearly murdered

[00:34:29] oh yeah yeah yeah um do you have any theory as to like who it could have been would it have been local or possibly federal do you think oh this is where we get really spooky i mean this is incredibly speculative i have no idea this is where i get into weird stuff uh... i don't think i'm blowing up anyone's spot because i think tanya said this somewhere publicly but i believe

[00:34:56] she said ted and gunderson said something to her about how he thought it may have been satanic or something which obviously a lot of people would scoff at first and it does seem kind of ridiculous and maybe it is ridiculous i don't know uh... but i mean there are reasons to you know i don't know think of ted as a dubious source i understand that uh... but um... i don't know i mean i also am very hip to the program to kill thesis

[00:35:21] and it is like i don't know if we were to have kill squads of some sort you'd probably need some pretty sick fucks to do that sort of stuff so i don't know but anyways i guess i digress just kind of who did it i don't know i don't know the exact three letter agency if you would even consider it to be a three letter agency or if it's some sort of entity within an entity i have no idea but i think someone reach out or what i think

[00:35:49] probably actually a couple people probably reach out and touch terry and took care of that problem now that it was a big uh... this is actually newer information that came out during the uh... cnn interview that came out recently from uh... cnn's thomas lake he wrote a piece on terry within the past like couple years uh... which was surprising uh... to say the least because it's actually actually a really good piece i don't i mean there's like things i can quibble about and you know things that have been pointed out like uh...

[00:36:19] tanya herself point out that they did you know maybe something to look out for if you are being conspiratorial or skeptical of their reporting is that they did seem to raise up uh... some of the characters that maybe you should be a little bit concerned of as being baddies as being more maybe not necessarily good characters is more like uh... raising them up as uh... you know i don't know its sources i guess and also

[00:36:48] kind of putting them in a more favorable light if that makes sense uh... so but even even then though that aside it's like that's a very minor quibble and it's kind of like i don't know it was a good it was a good piece of it i forgot why i even was mentioning the uh... why was i even mentioning the cnn article i don't even know why i mentioned the cnn article the new information that had come out due to the article the new information that came out new information that came out what what was i talking about about the new information that came out specifically from the cnn

[00:37:17] oh oh oh oh who killed him who done it who done it uh... the the information that came out there's a ramona mcdonald uh... is one of the this is the other person tanya yiki it was um... before i interviewed tanya yiki there was like tanya yiki and there was ramona mcdonald those were like my two like these are the people i want to interview

[00:37:41] somehow tanya yiki just fell in my lap she actually found my work was like oh i like your work i would like to you know talk to you if i know you you know have uh... really taken a liking to my husband's whatever and essentially she hit me up uh... but ramona is like the other one that like i have no idea myself how to get a hold of her so anytime i try to bring this up anytime i can you know anyone out there knows her anything like that knows ramona mcdonald let me know because she is a big source someone that would be great to have on the record in a

[00:38:11] podcast format to talk about a lot of these things because she has she does show up occasionally uh... as a source and she was especially you know the early days of the bombing she's actually a noted character a lot of people know uh... in the you know the the narrative of the oklahoma city bombing she showed up occasionally it was uh... like i said it was uh... ramona mcdonald and she ended up uh... she kind of backed off and i guess she had a slew of personal issues directly related to

[00:38:39] her speaking out about the oklahoma city bombing after so she changed she ended up changing her name and she got a whole hell of a lot more quiet to the extent of really not ever getting involved anymore really and uh... but she did uh... contribute a little bit to the most recent cnn article and in that article she goes into how um... there were two individuals that terry was supposed to go meet around the time he disappeared now these were feds of some sort

[00:39:07] she had been she'd actually talked to them met with them sort of semi-unofficially as well these are all reasons i'd love to talk to her to clear these out to you know more than just what's printed in print uh... but anyways uh... she uh... she claims that he went to go meet with these people these were some sort of glowies of some sort that uh... terry seemed to think maybe he could get them to them to listen about whatever you know he had uh... so he was going to you know he was going to go to them in his eyes these were glowies that were going to listen

[00:39:37] he had been trying to get people to listen to him for a while he had some sort of information these ones were going to listen uh... she made a point to uh... mention how he made a point to mention uh... that he wasn't going to bring his gun for this meeting obviously the implication being you know concerned it could be used against you uh... now this this is odd i do find it odd the last time we heard from ramona mcdonald in um... hoffman's article back in like 96 97 or something

[00:40:05] she did mention that he was supposed to go meet with some feds but at that point i believe the claim was that he blew off the meeting so i i would be interested to know like what changed if maybe it was some sort of misunderstanding but either way uh... so the original was until before it was originally the thought was that he went to go to some meeting he was supposed to have some sort of meeting with feds blew it off uh... and then you know the more recent information is that he supposedly did go to the meeting and made a point not to bring his gun so

[00:40:35] anyways i digress that's kind of i don't remember exactly why i went on that but who did it i guess the uh... they would be whoever these feds were he probably went to go meet to probably tell him about this super secret information he had that he probably had been being super secretive about not telling anyone about which is kind of part of the story which is i think to some extent what got him screwed him over here is uh... you know he didn't even talk to like tanya about the specifics of this she knew something was wrong

[00:41:02] like for example there's like the famous statement of when she picked him up from the hospital after the oklahoma city bombing because he got injured saving people one little detail i left out he was the first responder uh... he saved upwards of three people at least that's a very very very gross over us or underestimate uh... of the people he probably saved but he hurt himself in the process she picked him up and when she picked him up he wasn't in for one he was in a rush to get the hell out of there he was spooked seemed to think someone was uh...

[00:41:29] he might have been in danger or something but one of the first things he said to her when he got in the car was tanya it's not what they're telling you or they're lying to you i think i might got that a little bit wrong but essentially that was the crux of it and he was as you know borderline had tears in his eyes so i mean now he was always dodgy about details and the reason being is he was concerned you know it would be that he was concerned that she would know too much so right now uh... maybe i got this wrong but ramona um... she was one of the uh...

[00:41:59] women investigating it correct because there there was like this group of like citizens uh... or uh... locals that were investigating heroes of the heart or something i think or something like that i think so um... yeah tanya worked on it too and i think i read somewhere that uh... she was one of the few people that actually got a copy of yiki's original police report that he handed in um... it might have been her or someone else but

[00:42:28] um... somebody had a copy of it after the fact and um... somebody broke into her house and stole it um... which yeah that's part of the story yeah she got her shit ransacked after as did tanya as well so her her shit so right and so yeah i just wanted to make sure that that was the the same person that uh... we were talking about um and so yiki i mean

[00:42:57] to me out of out of all of it um uh... kenneth trying to do uh... it's a close second but i i think these two stories in particular really make this seem like more of a cover-up right or a false flag um... like without these two stories you know maybe it could be but these two stories like they stand out so much and then it's like well okay

[00:43:27] a mysterious death but then you look into exactly how yiki passed and it is somebody sending a very clear message like that that was brutal that was it was just heinous uh... yeah it was uh what two liters of blood they said which you know i've looked into it and two liters is basically where you're pretty much losing consciousness you may have already lose consciousness and you're not far along from dying right uh... so and to add on to all this this is keep in mind

[00:43:57] the car is some distance half mile to a mile and a half away from where the body is found the car is what is covered in two liters of blood his body somehow got from there to there and uh... on top of all this uh... this man had uh... was a sickle cell anemic so he would have bled like crazy so the idea that he could have even on the low ball with the low ball is half a mile away from the car uh... which i i find the the claims that it's half a mile to be questionable

[00:44:26] i think it's more a mile and a half either way even at a half mile the idea that a man who lost two liters of blood and was sickle had sickle cell anemia was going to travel a half mile into a field and blow his brains out it's not happening it's near it's not it's not happening right yeah and and the fact that they never found the firearm um... that he supposedly um... shot himself with at such a odd downward angle uh... because every

[00:44:54] everyone knows that you hold it like this if you're you know gonna yeah gonna remove yourself and i mean just everything else like the rope burns um the the grass and gravel stuck into his wounds i mean it's just how more blatant could it be um i guess my my favorite my favorite quote is from dave mcgowan it's uh how many coincidences does it take to make a conspiracy you know like how

[00:45:22] how many of these are we supposed to ignore before uh we realize like oh this this is actually the the official story is bullshit exactly um so we we've touched on niki a bit um do you want to give a rundown on uh trend to do kenneth trend to do and how he yeah sure yeah sure well he was uh kenneth was a vietnam vet uh he had had a heroin addiction uh you know i guess you know this is a common thing

[00:45:52] a lot of the vietnam vets kind of you know pick up that uh that habit during that time uh he was uh you got into robbing banks uh to you know kind of deal with his habit got caught did all that stuff you know dealt with it you know went to jail all that uh now he ended up having a parole violation uh later uh the the issue was that he didn't want to uh part of the one of the conditions of the parole was that he couldn't drink and uh he said to hell with that uh but he got his buddy he's not his buddy his brother

[00:46:22] jesse jesse trying to do to try to assist him with the uh you know pushing back against the parole board seeing if he can uh maybe get some sort of amendment to it or something you know some way around it but no no they wouldn't they wouldn't go for it they wouldn't budge uh and he just kind of was like all right well i'm gonna drink so i'm not showing up to any more of these parole meetings because it's like i'm telling you right now i'm drinking and you ain't let me do it so like but i'm gonna drink so i don't know you know where i am come get me whenever you want to get me i guess uh

[00:46:51] and they just never got him and uh that was kind of that was really all there was to it uh i guess they just they just said to hell with it didn't care and then until one day they did care when he was crossing the mexican border with his wife um they were you know he had a his wife was the the reason to mention her she was mexican so i mean i believe the implication is you're likely visiting family or something along those lines uh now this also but this happened at the same time uh there was a nationwide hunt for john doe 2

[00:47:21] going on which we didn't really touch on john doe 2 we kind of did a little bit but i guess to kind of quickly touch on that uh literally every single person who saw mcveigh the day of the bombing saw him with another person so that's that's basically the the and but for some reason the official narrative became old timmy just blew it up all by himself i mean the all by himself

[00:47:50] was an asterisk with the assistance uh you know in a supportive role by terry nichols and you know i guess sort of by uh you know by um by 40a uh who ended up being turning state witness but anyways i digress uh but the point being is they were looking for there was a period of time on doe 2 thing because every single eyewitness said hey this guy was with somebody else and this is kind of what he looked like they described you know

[00:48:20] uh i don't know honestly kind of really kind of a lot like me shorter stocky guy kind of darkish but not like uh not like uh i mean you could be a minority like ethnically ambiguous i guess would be a good way to put it but like so kind of tan you know so kind of tan muscular thick neck you know not short so he's not as short as i am so he's probably like supposed to be 5 7 to 5 9 uh but anyways point being is so this was a guy

[00:48:49] that was seen with him there was another person seen with him seen getting out of the rider truck and everything with him so another individual with uh with him now you know obviously uh the news gets out they end up you know getting john doe 1 who is uh who's timothy mcveigh uh john doe 2 they never find they go uh a couple months of searching him officially and uh and then they just the official native becomes oh he didn't exist it was some sort of misremembering

[00:49:18] or some nonsense like that which makes no sense because so the claim is that basically literally every eyewitness was wrong but they were right about the identifying mcveigh because he they were used to prove mcveigh was there legally speaking so they will use their word to say that he was there but not anything else about what they claim about the situation so anyways they certainly this was during the john doe 2 hunt now you know this uh this trend of do feller

[00:49:48] he kind of looks uh he kind of looks a lot like uh like uh john doe 2 like i said he's he's a white guy so in a lot of times john doe 2 is sometimes described as being like mexican or or indian or middle eastern or but but uh trinidad was a white guy but he kind of had a little bit of a darker tan uh you know had some other similar features there was reportedly uh the john doe 2 had like a dragon tattoo on his left forearm or something i believe uh so he had that as well he also was

[00:50:18] you know i mean this is kind of getting a little bit ahead of ourselves but there were there is reason to believe that john doe 2 may have been uh been hanging out when the employ of uh some bank robbers or had something to do with a group of bank robbers uh so now we have this uh this guy who has a history of robbing banks uh coming back from mexico at the height of one of the largest fugitive hunts uh matching this guy's description in all sorts of ways

[00:50:47] uh and then all of a sudden they decide this is the time that they're gonna get him for this old parole violation and then they take him from uh i believe this happened in mexico i think yeah or not mexico but in texas you know texas or california i want to say it's california i think it's california and then they take him they bring him to um to an oklahoma city uh detention facilities like a federal uh federal transfer facility or something i think it's called i forget some sort of federal facility where they bring these people uh that's

[00:51:17] where they so they ended up bringing him for that this is you know bear in mind this is during when they're having this big john doe 2 thing going on uh you know john doe 2 was also bared i wanted to mention it was he was thought to have likely have fled the country so him coming out of mexico kind of a big deal so they were on you know top alert for this stuff at the time uh so he ends up in oklahoma like i said uh he ends up being put in a special like a high security part of the prison um and ends up

[00:51:46] committing suicide so obviously we see parallels kind of epstein like despite being in like the you know the protective unit or whatever it's like somehow still managed to kill himself uh video goes disappearing all the like like that so this is an area he shouldn't have been able to kill himself uh found hanging from a bed sheet uh he had cuts bruises burns all over his body uh there were also two other inmates there who claimed they heard like screams and things of the like kind of sounding like torture

[00:52:16] and then you wouldn't believe it but these two guys also died uh so before it was all said and done those guys died as well so they they uh one of them i believe was uh a drug overdose and one of them uh got the old saddy sads as well and decided to kill himself just like trying to do uh it's just weird how sads seems to be contagious like this uh so yeah we have two we have trying to do himself dying and then the two inmates who claim they heard

[00:52:46] sounds that sounded you know something along the lines of struggles torture whatever uh those guys died um there also was on top of all that as if there wasn't enough death going around we had a videographer who was an expert videographer who was um how do I put this apparently the fbi i guess had come to him to ask for his expert opinion on essentially if there's any way that the videos that were supposed to have been uh there and witnessed

[00:53:16] the death of canadone which weren't there as i mentioned earlier these things magically disappeared or weren't uh i don't think they were recording or whatever i forget the specifics but either way they got this expert videographer to look at this and go hey look at this doodad is there any way that it could have not recorded or not worked or whatever the reason was for any other reason other than manual like someone else one of us doing it like is there something is there a way to explain this that was kind of like a

[00:53:46] oopsies and they go no his expert opinion is no they were also really insistent that this none of this was written down or anything like that uh this guy he finds you know he ends up contacting jesse who is uh Kenna's brother who happens to be a lawyer and he tells him about all this uh that the fbi came to him for he was willing to testify for uh for jesse uh and uh this guy died too he died of a heart attack so to be fair

[00:54:16] he could have just died of natural causes but i don't know you can never be schizo enough and uh we know about the old church committee and the heart attack gun so i don't know it's not outside the realm of possibility i mean i don't know if i feel like they wouldn't brush off the heart attack gun for a situation like that but maybe they would um mcveigh also contacted jesse trendu to tell him that he thought that the uh that uh his brother that uh jesse that uh ken died

[00:54:45] as a result of fbi mistaking his brother for richard lee guthrie who a lot of people think may have been john doe too uh it gets a little bit confusing because it's it's not really john doe too so much as i believe there are multiple john doe twos and i do think richard lee guthrie probably was one of them which this is the as i was implying about the bank robbery things richard lee guthrie was uh one of the heads of the ara which was this group that you know seemed to have connections to mcveigh

[00:55:14] and uh likely probably were the numerous john doe twos assisting mcveigh with the bombing itself and part of a larger network that contributed to this so anyways uh guthrie also died by the way committed suicide in jail because uh you know around the same time that jesse or that uh ken was in jail uh richard lee was richard was as well so it looks like i think it almost looks like a left not left hand not talking to the right

[00:55:44] hand or just not even being aware of what's going on i'm sure i don't know how information was dispersed but they may not even have been aware of who exactly they were looking for um it may not have been perfect information dispersed amongst the glowies uh so you know they may have very well thought that when they came across uh you know jesse or ken trendu that this was in fact richard lee guthrie or someone you know matching description that was something close to them i mean they may not even have known

[00:56:14] the name they may have just known hey this guy fits him almost perfectly but i mean if you look at pictures of richard lee guthrie and uh jesse trendu look very much alike also both of them are very similar to the descriptions of john doe too anyways uh you know richard lee guthrie like i said he also died in prison uh he had made a lot of claims saying he was going to kind of blow the lid off that he was talking to a lot of journalists and stuff and then he died in prison from the sads um the interesting thing about the story though is that the i've always thought the

[00:56:43] the real big takeaway from this is just kind of like i don't know there's something really poetic about you taking like a heroin addict like bank robber and like the government just like murdering him and like and oh hey look you screwed up he uh this guy actually like you probably you looked at this guy and thought that no one cared about him that he means nothing and he's just scum no his brother is a lawyer and you just set him on a you know war path to go after you the rest of

[00:57:13] his life right right jesse jesse trendadu is a badass yeah which i do want to say i actually keep forgetting to mention this to my audience i'm streaming this to my audience right now so i guess this seems appropriate i was supposed to have him on on sunday and i totally forgot to tell you guys that didn't happen felt bad because i was like i did really hint something was going to happen and uh that fell through so i'm just letting you guys know that was who it was supposed to be i'm really bad at keeping secrets i should be more professional and stop like telling

[00:57:43] at a time when i have something big but i just get too excited and i can't help but telling you guys so uh but he'll probably like he'll probably likely come back on again or come come on sometime in the future it's just a there was a scheduling issue and then i think he also was going back to court and stuff so he's a lot going on and he's he's an old he's an old feller so uh he's gotta get asleep so yeah that's that's one guy i've wanted to uh get on my show as well especially because uh we're both in the same neck of the woods so it's it's something i could actually do in

[00:58:12] person so so that that will probably have to happen at some point um so just to kind of keep it keep it moving um what do you feel about the uh i believe it's the elohim city or elohim whatever the elohim city connection um basically anyone who doesn't know the the white supremacist compound um up in

[00:58:42] elohim elohim whatever uh in oklahoma is often cited as a planning hub for the bombing uh informant carol how reported that residents including andreas uh strassmier uh discussed bombing federal buildings uh conspiracy theorists argue the government uh suppressed this link to avoid exposing a wider far-right network or its own intelligence failures

[00:59:11] yeah i uh i i am a proponent of the elohim theory i do think there's a lot going on in the over there in elohim it's kind of hard to get a read on exactly what's going on but yeah there were that was the hub of a group of individuals the ara as i mentioned earlier whereas richard gilby guthrie being one of them the individual ended up uh you know very much bearing a very striking likeness to uh can't try to do he

[00:59:40] all they both ended up dying of uh of the sads um so we have um god what was my fucking point what was oh we're talking about elohim so uh we and then we have the you have langen who uh you know donna langen is who they became later known as because uh this is a trun right here uh for funny enough i believe one of the first ones who end up being i don't know if they actually received it or they were going to receive it but essentially receive a government funded uh

[01:00:10] uh transition care or something like that they were like one of the first ones to either receive it or be due to i forget the specifics on it uh but it's just kind of funny this is one that was you know thrown around as like landmark you know progressive and it's like you know that was a uh neo-nazi bank robber right that uh likely probably caused the oklahoma city bombing to some degree but anyways uh so that uh that langen who is man has an insane story two cia spooks and their

[01:00:40] immediate family their dad uh being the most notable one their sister being the other one i don't think i don't really know what all she really did or anything or anything of significance the dad was like the head dude in like vietnam the head cia guy uh literally was there at like the height of the before and after and at the height of a coup um you know so his uh like literally we had a little little little boy langen playing with the other little kids in the

[01:01:09] palace that they would hang out at and uh you know then you know one day comes along and oh just killed a bunch of the dignitaries and oh okay i guess we're not playing with little ling ling anymore you know just oh i guess we just murdered my best friend's uh you know dad or it's just it's crazy like a langen story his dad was clearly involved in like operation phoenix and uh literally was uh seemed to be involved in a lot of the uh kill squad type

[01:01:39] stuff going on over there but a big wig he also saw the monks that uh lit themselves on fire self immolated he dude had a crazy crazy early life um i think his dad died at a pretty young age and he he went through the ringer uh so we have the ara there uh we have this weird uh i don't know it's been referred to sometimes as like a cult i guess you could say uh the elohim ites or whatever up there

[01:02:07] uh that they they kind of under the under fall under the tutelage of grandpa millar uh who's been an fbi informant in the past uh i don't think he really you know it's not like somebody ever really hides from um so yeah it's it's a odd uh group of individuals we have dennis mahon who was along with strassmeyer who was another person up in the up in the neck of uh elohim city that you know he reportedly went

[01:02:36] with uh strassmeyer mahon and uh carol howe supposedly cased out to the home of the city uh and uh you know i want to say multiple times and uh one of the buildings they cased was the murrah federal building itself the courthouse too i believe so uh yeah i was yeah i was just about to bring that up is that this is uh actually been brought up before as far as that building being a target um and i think i watched an

[01:03:06] interview somewhere where um some people were talking and saying that for whatever reason it just like didn't feel right or they they felt like a a calling from god to not attack it or so like some something strange like it was just uh like whatever the reason was it just never ended up happening but these people did um actually look at the same federal building um yeah it was dennis mahon that had um i don't

[01:03:35] know how many years prior but the exact same date uh had you know had a plot in place to do the exact same thing ammonium nitrate bomb everything yeah so weird stuff yeah right um and so that that does kind of tie into um the theory that this was kind of a uh a false flag um in order for one to uh discredit the militia movement which was like

[01:04:04] massive in the 90s um anyone who wasn't there or old enough at the time um let's see i did have something um so let's see a atf setup and waco revenge misdirection um mcveigh uh stated motive retribution for the waco siege uh is questioned as the atf officers in the federal

[01:04:32] building sustained minimal damage and many agents were absent during the blast um which is incredibly weird i mean so this building had like tons of different federal offices and then supposedly uh the people being targeted were just not there that day and it was it was nine in the morning too i mean to be fair i think i i forget which book i was reading recently because i've always looked for a figure and i probably should have committed to memory

[01:05:00] a little bit but i want to say we're in the amount of um agents they had it must have been the pritchard book because i just read that recently but i want to say it was like in the not in single digits but it was uh and not in the teens but i want to say it was maybe in like the 20s or less somewhere somewhere in that realm so it wasn't like an obscene amount of people that worked in that office so it's not like on it's not crazy unbelievable they couldn't all be there but it was 9 0

[01:05:29] was it 902 i think when the explosion happened or something so it's like it was nine in the morning so it's like i don't know i would assume in the 90s so i would assume that like yeah i mean even if you are a super secret agent i would assume there would be at least some desk workers and stuff doing something at nine in the morning in the office so you know i don't know well and this this was a pretty um a pretty busy federal building like there there was

[01:05:59] a lot going on oh well what i mean is that let's referred specifically to the atf there were plenty of people who got hurt and stuff in the other ones but there was claimed the atf was the the target and none of them were in the building so yeah but there were plenty of other agents government agents but like things like irs and shit like that but like the proposed target the atf yeah none of those guys uh somehow this was super big deal for timmy vay to uh

[01:06:28] enact his revenge but he didn't even bother to do the intel to see if anyone would even be there you know right and i do find that kind of strange like all of a sudden so there there were many reports um i'm not sure if this is true or not but supposedly there were reports of agents getting text messages or not text messages but phone calls beavers um these these sorts of uh notifications to

[01:06:55] not come in which yeah what what's that and then um one thing um i wanted to ask you about was the bomb squad truck uh do you have an opinion on that uh one second i actually have something for you that i think you would appreciate what the fuck is it um uh let me see is that right or no

[01:07:23] this is it right here just haven't said all right here you go uh you were just speaking about the beeper here you go right is it up right now members play all right let's go to this suspicion of fire warning is bolstered to by this man we found who spoke to us anonymously at his wife's request she worked in the moral building which was the local headquarters for the atf the bureau of alcohol tobacco and

[01:07:52] firearms the federal agency most directly involved in catching bombers i spotted the atf officer in a jacket that signified that it was atf personnel and he just came out and told me that the atf wasn't in the building that day they'd been tipped by their pagers not to come to work uh which i was flabbergasted you know i i didn't ask this guy this question this is just what came out of his

[01:08:21] mouth did he go further to explain why they were told not to come to work this they were tipped by the pagers of the bomb threat yep so they were told there was a bomb threat this morning and did not come in and that's why they didn't come in and that's that's really strange um so the for anyone who might not know there there were reports of a bomb threats yeah bomb threats um and not only at that building there was a couple of

[01:08:48] the fire the fire chief uh i believe if i remember correctly i want to say it was something like the assistant fire chief or something that ended up being the one that copped up to it but i can't remember uh why where they heard it initially but i don't know if it was jd cash or pritchard or whoever it was went to go talk to them and then they were like and they were initially like nope that it's not a thing that happened and uh no we didn't hear any sort of news about keeping an eye out for nobody or

[01:09:17] nothing like that and then uh then i guess i don't know they went down the hall and asked somebody else and it was like the you know the number two guy there in the office or wherever and he was like yeah i'm not lying for anybody like no that happened and he went on record and was like yeah no like we were told to keep an eye out for these people like that there's some some bad hombres coming through or whatever i mean obviously they didn't say that but right you know i mean the idea that they were told to like it was even weirder too because it was like keep an eye out for something or it was

[01:09:45] something weird along those lines it was also like a weird like kind of weird ass kind of warning is that like that's useless so but either way it's it's still uh yeah it's it's bizarre yeah and you're talking about the bomb squad and the uh i mean that that is an interesting component i think this plays into the idea of there being two rider trucks because the the bomb squad there were claims that people saw bomb squad trucks particularly like over around the courthouse uh you know there were claims that people saw like what looked

[01:10:14] like people with almost like i want to say they were like almost like a little scanny things like looking around uh these are all things that seem to match up with someone almost looking for i don't know like a tracking device so they may be in a vehicle or something uh because one of the common things thrown around is probably some sort of sting but this is where the idea of multiple rider trucks come along and there is research i forget the minutiae of why that seems to prove it but this comes down to the ins and outs of times and eyewitness reports and when they actually got the

[01:10:44] the the the rider truck i want to say it's like they were eyewitness claims they saw a rider truck before the purchase of the rider truck they ended up blowing up so this would imply there was another rider truck um but what would be the purpose of a second rider truck why would you need it i don't know maybe it was too small that was one that's thrown around and wanted maybe one was too small or whatever they had to get a different size i don't know but one theory that i like is that let's just say that this

[01:11:13] was some sort of atf sting or something like that i mean there was what was it a i think it's called a deep hole might or something there was some sort of atf thing going on not to i want to say it was shortly before that or something where they were looking into rider truck bombs type uh explosions or whatever um i totally uh anyone was i even talking about totally fucking uh i'm having i'm spacey today dude i'm sorry

[01:11:40] no you're good the uh second rider truck the bomb squad oh yeah yeah yeah so the idea being if this was some sort of sting uh you would have a you would have a a tracking device in it the idea being oh on that day you have let's just say john doe too with some sort of government agent and he and let's say he's in the truck with mcveigh and i don't know let's say mcveigh is the baddie obviously we can go you know he's a you know government asset but

[01:12:09] whatever let's say he's a through and through baddie and he he's you know driving the truck and then how this is let's say how this is supposed to go is they pull up to the spot and then you know timothy vee gets out and john doe too pulls out of the truck and then he friggin then he he pulls around he yanks it up and then you're under arrest and you've been stopped and but like now we have this cool moment in front of the courthouse and now we get a you're like oh they stopped the bomb and you know he you know there

[01:12:38] really wasn't it was you know it was a fake bomb or something like that well it looks like perhaps maybe that's not the case and maybe there was actually a an initial rider truck that had the uh a little uh you know the obligatory little tracker for this thing and let's who's to say they didn't take that one out for a joy ride somewhere else that that morning and uh between the the slew of different john doe twos that

[01:13:06] we have maybe they didn't help facilitate this they didn't take the feds out for a wild goose chase while timothy mcveigh shows up at a different time and a different building with a different explosive device um right i just kind of seems like a good way to kind of i don't know uh kind of throw the old switcheroo on the feddy poos if this was some sort of sting this is just one that's thrown around a lot i think it's a i

[01:13:34] mean it kind of matches up with the reports of the bomb squads and then uh the multiple rider truck theory so yeah right and i do find it weird the this um uh bomb squad truck uh suppose like it was supposedly written off as um some guy just doing personal errands like he just took a bomb squad truck out to to run like normal personal errands what sense does that

[01:14:03] make i mean yeah that so uh to keep it moving one one thing um this is a bit more tinfoil um or or maybe it's not i actually don't know and so i wanted to ask um what what credence do you feel that uh any of this had to do with uh the clinton whitewater scandal is there is there any credence to this

[01:14:32] i i'll be honest i've not looked into it enough really i mean this comes up a lot people always bring it up i don't really because this comes down to uh they were files and i know i believe i vaguely recall there were maybe one maybe two claims of some sort of like it looked like feds were maybe taking files or taking things whether those files can maybe be the air but i mean the idea that they would be

[01:15:00] rooting through some things or procuring taking some stuff whether it be explosives or whatever like unexploded ordinance because that's another part of the story that we haven't really touched on i i don't know it's not that crazy i mean the documents i find to be kind of like an easy culprit and almost like kind of seems too easy i mean maybe it's right i i just i also feel like uh i don't know i know it was the 90s so i mean they probably weren't completely digitized

[01:15:28] but like i don't know you would assume if it was any sort of important government document they would have backups in other places right so i mean i just it just it never really seemed to have a lot of explanatory power for me um so yeah i don't i don't know the idea that like they would do it to take out some documents just seems a little ridiculous to me but i don't know right it's just the one everyone people always bring up i just think it's like almost like a just trying to shoot to shoehorn the clintons into it which like

[01:15:59] i mean you don't really which i will say i guess if you are someone who's trying to make this like a sexy like clinton list thing or something it doesn't fit neatly into that i mean there is that there but not in that juicy like you know like oh here's this oh here's this person that clinton killed and you're like i think it's a little more indirect than that i mean there is the uh uh merrick garland did go visit with uh herely clinton uh before he went to go start his uh trial

[01:16:27] uh so literally the the you know the thing to know here is that he flew uh so this is merrick garland who was our attorney general this was like kind of like one of his like really breakthrough breakout cases for him this was like really kind of where he cut his teeth right here was on this thing i forget what his role was but this is you know he's kind of up and comers this is what made him this is why he got hooked up let's be real uh but he

[01:16:55] had to fly back to dc and then fly back all within the course of 24 hours to have an in-person meeting with hillary clinton um discussing what we don't know we know this because uh richard booth foyer the white house visitor logs and so we were able to confirm that they visited so he flew up from oklahoma to dc and then flew back within the course of 24 hours to visit with harley clinton before the biggest case of his entire life

[01:17:22] to talk about uh for his uh legal coverage i guess you could say of what was her husband's you know i guess penultimate probably a moment of his uh i mean he even said himself that if it wasn't for the oklahoma city bombing i don't think i would get a got re-elected so um yeah a lot going on there so i i really do i think she likely probably did pull him aside and

[01:17:48] probably tell him like hey this is uh these are the uh these are the beats this is what we're doing this is what's happening here you know don't call her outside the lines or there will be issues see you uh you got you got your orders uh have a good one like you know so for for anyone who doesn't

[01:18:08] know um exactly and it is considered to be one of the grand scandals at least in the the early years um back when they were still located in arkansas um they surfaced during bill clinton's bid for presidency the first time um it's centered on the financial contributions by bill and

[01:18:36] hillary clinton into a real estate entity known as whitewater development corporation during his time as an arkansas state official eventually the justice department and independent counsel launched investigations uh the outcome was that neither bill nor hillary faced prosecution for their involvement in whitewater but their public statements about the matter and the handling of documents that went missing and later reappeared uh came under

[01:19:06] intense scrutiny their partners in the real estate investment were uh jim mcdougall and his then wife susan uh jim mcdougall was convicted of fraud charges for making bad loans and he died of heart disease in a texas prison susan was convicted of fraud in connection with obtaining a three hundred thousand dollar federally backed small business loan she refused to answer grand jury questions in the whitewater

[01:19:35] affair affair and was held in contempt of court spending 18 months in jail bill clinton pardoned her before he left the white house in early 2001 um the idea that uh this was done solely for the purpose of getting rid of those documents i mean that seems absurd but i have seen people make that claim yeah i mean maybe they did along the way but like i i don't know i just also i just find it uh

[01:20:03] i don't i mean dubious that they would just be stored there and then disappear i don't know maybe i haven't really taken the time to dig it it just seems that like it's just a weird focal point for people i i don't know maybe there's more to it than i think it's just that like that's always the one that people always like oh my god this and i'm like as someone who spent a shitload of time looking at this didn't really come up right and i don't think it's like super important but

[01:20:30] because it does come up a lot i did want to ask about it because yeah to me it seems like a big nothing burger you know yeah i've had the same thought too like i i almost i almost did an episode where we kind of covered those type of things where it was like those type of questions because it is like there are a few of those you're like oh you're in a local city but what about this and you're like these are questions that like but then you're actually someone who's like a researcher you don't really you're like that's not really something we put a whole lot of much into so right i mean i

[01:21:00] don't really even know really many people who have serious research who put a ton into that that i'm aware of i haven't seen any sort of threads articles anything along that i've seen it casually mentioned here and there but never anything that's put any sort of serious oomph behind it that i'm aware of i'd be happy to see if anyone out there knows of any feel free to tag me and do it because i do this question quite a bit so it would be right it'd be cool if i had something more

[01:21:23] to come with yeah yeah that that's just exactly what they want is nobody to look into it yeah yeah but um so another thing i wanted uh to bring up real quick was and this kind of ties back into yiki is the uh inside explosives um supposedly experts like uh the air force uh brigadier general benton k

[01:21:53] parton and psychiatrist samuel samuel t cohen argued that the damage to the mariah building couldn't have been caused solely by a truck bomb made of ammonium nitrate and fuel oil uh they suggested additional explosives were planted inside implying a more sophisticated operation than mcveigh and

[01:22:15] nichols could have managed alone um so what's what's your position on the uh multiple bombs or i guess the the bomb inside the building versus outside uh where's your stance uh i mean i'm kind of i lean towards bombs in the building that's kind of where i'm at i mean we had with ruth graham and jane schwab i think

[01:22:38] i'm uh i'm uh prone to swap their last name so it might be it might be the other way around so uh but those are two individuals that uh you know had fbi 302s where they uh claimed they saw individuals in the parking garage who looked like they were planting and they described it in different ways but essentially it sounds like they're describing someone with like wires and like a putty and blocks and sounds like someone uh putting c4 around so there were a couple people making claims like that

[01:23:08] i mean uh you know obviously the bombing analysis like you pointed out uh i mean there is i mean when it comes to the the bombs i mean like i said there was la sean that said that you know the idea of it blowing out is supposed to end there's you know she there's not the only person who's made those sort of claims about seeing things along those lines there was the degree to which they were being crazy about not letting people back in like uh part of yiki's stories that he was insistent

[01:23:37] on coming back and trying to take pictures and uh tanya went with him they got shooed off from the site he was really focused on the daycare for some reason so what he was trying to look at i don't know one thing thrown out frequently is looking for maybe unexploded ordinances or something along those lines um so yeah this is something thrown along a lot um i mean i by no means it's not something that i'm

[01:24:00] like i'm like beholden to uh in any way uh yeah i wouldn't be like it would in no way is like um integral to any sort of beliefs i have about the oglen city bombing if it's not the case but i do lean towards that probably being the case uh there just seems to be i'd be just between the claims of seeing people in there i mean some of some of the other you know

[01:24:24] things that seem to imply that there were claims that you know show things that imply maybe bombs inside i mean there is even the uh atf did stop the uh the search multiple the rescue efforts multiple times for unexploded ordinance their claims of unexploded ordinances in the wreckage um so this is usually passed off as being oh the atf wasn't properly storing explosives there

[01:24:51] um so but then a lot of people will say oh that's because they had c4 or whatever so you know kind of it's kind of you know pick your own story here but either way i mean i think uh you look at it it doesn't it's a not a uniform uh you know explosion pattern it does seem to be kind of odd um there's a lot i mean i'm not going to get into the weeds of you know the specifics i mean i've read a bunch on you know that go into bombing analysis so i i tend to lean towards there were

[01:25:18] bombs in the building but like that's not something i can prove and like i don't know it wouldn't you wouldn't blow my world away if it was otherwise but i do think there were probably bombs in the building that's kind of where i sit um especially with some of the things that yiki had said um and his insistence on trying to get back to where the daycare was um i mean i guess

[01:25:46] it's possible that something else could have been there um but why would he be so interested in heading back um specifically to get a picture um of that area um that that always struck me as odd um is um exactly why did he want to get back there so so bad um and also take a camera with him

[01:26:10] um you know that that was just something that always struck me as odd um real quick uh before we get out of here because i don't want to keep you too long um i did say that um i did have another another uh another clip real quick uh and it is a yeehee clip so let's let's go ahead and run that real quick before we get out of here

[01:28:06] so that was one edit uh there are several several around uh i was trying to find um another one i'm pretty sure it's the uh the one let's see you have one pulled up no i just uh i was as you were

[01:28:34] playing that i was like here's one more thing that i just felt like would be kind of fun to just kind of drop on the audience without really spending a ton of time explaining just because it's a fun little mic drop that we really didn't cover at all uh this is a uh this is a letter from tim think vey too it says a little excerpt so like you're not catching all of it but i don't know just kind of just take a little wonder what this is about let's go and read it it says what i learned

[01:28:58] next both from the briefings and from the questions and private talks included one we would be helping the cia fly drugs into the u.s to fund many covert operations two military consultants were to work hand in hand with civilian police agencies to quote unquote quiet anyone who was deemed a security risk quote unquote in parentheses we would be government paid assassins three many other details to verify

[01:29:27] these last two see the enclosed article or watch again the movie lethal weapon it also gives you new insight on things like waco etc they were murdered by hitmen that is from our uh our illustrious illustrious illustrious timothy mcveigh right there uh to his sister this was years before the

[01:29:50] oakland city bombing so what this is about i don't know weird stuff guys weird stuff right all claims all this crazy stuff timothy vey's talking about for no reason whatsoever right and this is actually kind of where i wanted to wrap things up uh real quick without spending too much time on it like you

[01:30:10] said but um what is your opinion as far as uh mcveigh being an asset uh whether it's cia fbi i mean there was uh him being um interviewed by jolly west and there's like all of these other things um that we could just keep going on forever so where is where is uh where where are you when it comes to this sort of

[01:30:38] topic oh i'm pretty out there uh this is a one of the ones i i am yeah yeah i think he was a glowy dude i think he that dude glows i mean i don't know it's it's just i mean how that's what i just pointed as what we're looking at right now that little excerpt from his letter to his sister i mean there's that there's other things he claimed to his first lawyers as well something similar to this

[01:31:02] who then later then told stephen jones is like a main defense attorney that like you you're going to totally have a completely different like outlook on like the legal system and like the whole system after this and like there's just there's multiple things he made claims to his um was it david paul hammer i think uh his uh his uh you know his one of his buddies in uh in jail uh you know timmy made claims to him that you know essentially along these lines he didn't even wrote a whole book about

[01:31:31] it which is probably one of the next ones i'm going to be reading is about like what really happened to him being kind of a glowy agent and what really happened he you know supposedly mcveigh gave his whole tell-all to david paul hammer and uh so that's supposedly the real story for those who are interested uh according to david paul hammer which who is kind of actually a noted con artist so bear all that in mind but uh you know so i i don't know i actually do kind of you know

[01:31:57] with me saying that though i kind of lean towards i haven't read that yet but from my understanding of that book i kind of lean towards his sequence of events and i think he he might have been telling the truth that new mcveigh did you know kind of tell him all this stuff uh because it does match up with things he was telling other people as well so yeah it's just a bizarre thing to tell someone years before the bombing that yeah no and this guy did uh you know this is something we didn't tell

[01:32:24] the audience but he did you know tim mcveigh was in the military uh he went to desert storm or you know or golf or whatever i forget always mix up the names but uh one of those ones over in iraq um he got out went to go join special forces the official story is that he failed and uh he got uh sent he ended up then becoming disillusioned with the military ended up getting out short not too much

[01:32:49] longer after that uh according to him and in this letter he the real story is that no they pulled him aside and said hey we need to be mr super secret agent man we need you to be sheep dipped uh we need you to on paper quit the military and kind of create this legend as a disaffected veteran and uh you know you're gonna go around uh the country kind of make a name for yourself you know kind of hobnob

[01:33:15] with all these uh major figures in the uh you know the right wing and uh that's that's what you're gonna do and then uh lo and behold he ends up doing that so it's a weird thing to lie about especially since that ends up being the story of your life this is a guy who was kind of force gumping it with like all of the major right wing figures of that time like he really was if you read

[01:33:42] admiration in the heart land of the real and uh which really does focus a lot on that period between him getting out of the military and him you know obviously the bombing uh it is like this dude was dude was doing dude was on some shit dude was on one uh so like this dude this dude was working i believe for caltech uh he when he got out he was in the guard which i is pretty which is notable

[01:34:08] if you're concerned about sheep dipped because that would be logistically speaking that's great for sheep dipping it also makes it so now you are in a different uh legal status to where you are able to do domestic operations because you are in the guard as opposed to active duty you are a subsidiary of your state government now as opposed to your the federal government so it puts you in a different status where you can do domesticated things there this no longer is an issue where we run into

[01:34:37] like old laws we're like no we can't be having the military operating domestically like those sort of laws so uh well yeah didn't it seem like when mcveigh was in prison didn't it seem like he was just kind of waiting like to be taken care of like he was so relaxed yeah with david paul hammer that's one thing i was talking about that was he did seem to claim uh to him and others that uh yep no i'm gonna be good

[01:35:05] they're gonna get me out of here so this is where a lot of the people who claim that like no he didn't really die and he's actually paul weissapal that's in some other fbi district somewhere which they do look quite a bit alike uh this is where you get those theories from because he seemed to think i think that timothy mcveigh thinks or thought he wasn't gonna die but i i'm of the opinion he probably died i mean i wouldn't be like astounded if they if they like pulled some crazy houdini

[01:35:35] glowy stuff but uh i kind of i'm a little a little doubtful i think they're just like yo this guy is a liability let's get rid of him right i mean i wouldn't be surprised but on the other hand it's like i don't know what the reason for keeping him alive would be like it would just be easier to just get rid of him um and because then that whole that whole uh loose end is tied up and then you don't

[01:36:03] have to worry about it from there so it just it just seems likely that it's easier for them to take care of them um it just i don't see why they would want to keep him alive or throw him into witness protection but maybe this goes like even way deeper than we know and you know he was like super like way more important i don't know um i don't think so so i'm kind of with you on that but uh

[01:36:32] who knows um but on that um let's uh let's wrap this up and uh let everyone know where they can find you um what what you have coming up what you want people to go check out what whatever you want to shout out uh yeah i uh i have the no way jose podcast i'm on youtube all the major odd pod catchers rumble as well uh like i said i kind of run uh three i mean it's all falls under no way jose

[01:36:59] our branding is a little bit confusing i know but i kind of run three shows i guess one's kind of the normal no way jose the solo stuff uh but then i do the other two shows which are already dead it's my weekly show on tuesdays at 9 30 p.m uh there's a call-in show and then i also do a daily show monday through friday like a kind of a normal daily show uh take the weekends off all that uh but usually we do those around 10 a.m eastern uh kind of just talk about current events some old stuff

[01:37:28] too so we do it's just kind of a hangout uh we kind of like a research environment uh hangout environment as well kind of a combination of the two so it's a fun time good place to hang out good place to chill uh if you guys have stuff that you you know research stuff you want me digging to share it there and we'll go over it together uh but yeah we have a lot of fun over there you can follow me on twitter at tower gang jose uh yeah i hope to see some of you guys over there soon we do have a good time

[01:37:55] and uh yeah i don't know it's gonna be a fun year i'm looking forward to where things go so i appreciate you having me on jacob and uh yeah i don't think i really have anything else in the form of plug i don't have anything crazy going on man i do i'm getting ready to do a pretty big appearance soon but in the way of uh actual guests or anything i think as i mentioned they're trying to do one i'll get them i think i'm gonna get them scheduled sometime soon but i don't have a date yet so any any sort of big guests or anything like that i uh i don't know we have some more of your stuff that should

[01:38:21] be dropping public here soon some more of those uh false memory syndrome foundation episodes i have a few of those behind the paywall too for any of those who uh any of the non-poors in the audience over here awesome but yeah thanks thanks for coming on dude uh i definitely want to get you back i i would like to get you and austin at some point to come on and talk about gladio and stuff i think uh that really is like one of these points that kind of uh you know just keeps coming up you know

[01:38:50] it's one of the uh the junctions in the spider web so but definitely go check everything out i've made sure to put uh links in the episode description for uh by the way real quick sorry let me throw over your shit it was cal span not cal tech i fucked up my bad all right sorry go ahead no worries um so make sure you go check out uh jose down in the episode description um and as far as rise to

[01:39:20] liberty you can go uh also in the episode description rise to liberty.com slash links that pulls up uh my master my master link it shows all the platforms um i have now started doing shows every tuesday and thursday um they they will be uh continuous shows uh tuesdays are more of a planned show thursdays are more of a lax this is what i found kind of on the internet but it's all kind of in the

[01:39:47] same realm of stuff it uh will tend to be scheduled right after the morning dump um because i actually like watching the morning dump and i don't want to stream until after that so it's a good way for us to not uh conflict or whatever and uh other other than that make sure and go hit the like uh hit the subscribe hit the share leave a comment all of these things it helps the show out more than you

[01:40:14] could possibly imagine uh the big tech overlords have made sure um that we will not grow um so this is entirely dependent upon all of you guys to be able to help us get these shows out there uh to get the followers and everything and hey it's free so if you found this valuable at all um go ahead like i said hit the like subscribe leave a comment thumbs up follow all of these different things and the more

[01:40:43] people that end up doing that the better content i can ultimately end up bringing people in the future and in the near future so other than that uh there's no more updates as far as i know except for the next stream will actually be sunday not tuesday so that's just going to be a chill uh monday morning coffee with rise to liberty so come hang out chill out check that out uh other than that um

[01:41:13] let's see here i think i got everything closed up on my end now the one last thing i wanted to ask you jose real quick was what is the one thing um out of out of everything out of all the theories and everything what do you think the most important aspect of oklahoma city has been or is

[01:41:35] hmm the most important aspect of oklahoma city uh i don't think i can really give a what's the most important uh what's something that like people should like take away from hmm takeaway i i think uh i think uh it's kind of a thought i had recently especially where it's like my our age uh i think a lot of people have these tendencies to like and i get this a lot they

[01:42:04] go oh this happened in 1995 blah blah blah blah blah and you're like that's within my lifetime like this is a major world changing event this is like this is like shaped our future like this is something that like formed the reality we live in like it's it's this is a major event so like uh

[01:42:29] and this is kind of i know there's something to that uh being aware of this and like uh i don't know it's almost like we're kind of working backwards and deprogramming ourselves of the nonsense out there so i think it's something uh worthwhile it's almost like you're getting to the root of the programming and like kind of seeing uh seeing the zeros and ones behind the matrix kind of deal so i think it's a worthwhile for people to kind of dig into it especially you know if you have anything in

[01:42:55] common with us i mean i don't know we're what in our like 30s so in that rough age span i don't know just this is a thing that's really affected your life a lot this is a precursor to like all the 9-11 stuff we saw patriot act uh i mean this is just general the you know strategy attention that led uh stuff that led up to 9-11 i don't know i just think there's a these are also as i mean i mentioned merrick garland earlier so it's like i mean you see i mean who's who's the other one there's another

[01:43:22] attorney former attorney general who plays a part in this is more in the trend do side of things he was helping with the cover-up uh i can't think he was a fast and furious guy i can't think of his name right now um the black dude uh whatever uh but anyways uh so there you know we see these people that are these swamp creatures that it kind of got their start uh kind of made their bones and uh i just think it's kind of one of those ones they act like oh this means nothing this was so long ago but

[01:43:49] you think that the characters involved and it's like really a lot of those same people are still around and if not them they're like direct proteges and likely things are the same exact protocols and practices are being placed in most things so this is also a really good like rosetta stone for understanding how things are done because this was the 90s it's not that long ago that it takes a while for these guys to change their mannerisms so um yeah i don't know i also think it's a one that i

[01:44:18] think they uh i don't know i feel like they're a little bit particularly sloppy and in certain interesting ways i've brought this up a few times that i think there was some sort of interesting um crossroads of like where technology was and then also where it wasn't at that time that made it so that like it kind of had a blind spot for the feds or they were kind of sloppy it was kind of like they didn't anticipate like the the tech was there to document things but the tech wasn't there to

[01:44:47] collate and network things quite like we have the ability to now uh so that the the the ability to document and track that stuff there but now we're at the time where now we're able to collectivize this information and organize it in meaningful ways uh so whereas we didn't have that back then but we had the means to hold on to the information i don't think they were thinking about the future and like oh we need to be extra careful not be as sloppy so there was a lot of stupid stuff that they were

[01:45:17] able to get away with back in the days of like kennedy and stuff like that because it's kind of like you know i know there's a lot less things tracking your every little move uh so i don't know i just think it's i just find it really interesting story that doesn't really get enough shine and has a lot of explanatory power for the uh the spooky world we live in hell yeah i think that's a perfect note to end on once again thanks everyone for tuning in make sure hit the like subscribe share

[01:45:45] comment on your way out check out jose's stuff jose hang out in the back for just a second as we wrap

[01:45:51] this up everyone else until next time stay free my friends i believe we are out i can't hear you

[01:46:38] weird uh there we go i can hear you now that was weird i don't remember ever hitting mute so odd all right cool that was a good show uh good overview definitely because as you know oklahoma is like it's just such a huge topic i mean look at how many episodes you ended up doing

[01:47:03] oh yeah it's a it's a time suck for sure right uh but yeah good show dude i i thought it was really good so i'd like to get you back on definitely at some point um i mean there's there's so many other things that you've covered and stuff and i think we could make make some good shows and plus it would be fun to do a uh uh you know a triple show with you me and austin at some point because that would be

[01:47:28] cool so but yeah that would be fun definitely hit us up in the future for sure like uh oh yeah but uh yeah we'll definitely do that uh i i did just check just now because i was curious and how that worked because you'd think they would uh allow you to do it but uh i'm not i don't i'm not able to get the mp3 so if you just whenever you get a chance i'm not gonna i won't do it till tomorrow so i'll upload it on my uh rss so if you want to send that over to me but it's up on my

[01:47:55] uh rumble on youtube already so we're right on yeah yeah um the audio version on my end will be up this coming monday and then um other than that i mean everything's gonna gonna be up where it where it is so yeah but all right man i'm uh i gotta take a shit so i'm gonna let you go you you

Rise To Liberty

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How The Oklahoma City Bombing Changed America Forever

False Memory Syndrome Foundation Exposed! Pt. 2

False Memory Syndrome Foundation Exposed! Pt. 1

Bonus Ep: Was Jonestown A CIA Medical Experiment? - False Memory Expose