Angela McArdle and the CIA's Secrets

[00:00:32] Oops, forgot to bring us back up, but welcome back to Rise To Liberty Podcast. Thank you for joining us again today. We have a very special guest who has decided to spare a little bit of time. Not that she has a whole lot these days anyways, but today's guest is Angela McArdle, the current chair of the National Libertarian Party. How are you doing today, Angela?

[00:00:56] I am doing so great. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:00:59] Yeah, of course. Thank you for coming back. So let's just jump straight into it. Initially, when I got a hold of you, I had a whole other idea for this interview and wanted to touch on JFK, some of the inner party drama. Nobody really cares.

[00:01:21] But I had a better idea anyways, even though I would recommend you did an interview with, oh, what's his name? His name is escaping me, of course, right here on the show. It was all about the inner party drama.

[00:01:42] Michael Oxford?

[00:01:44] I think so.

[00:01:47] Him or D.L. Cummings?

[00:01:49] It might have been Cummings. Either way, I will make sure and post that episode in the episode description because it was very, very insightful. There was a lot of things that maybe the public aren't pervy to.

[00:02:06] And I think it's, there's definitely two sides to this whole situation. And of course, I have my own opinions being not just a member, but involved as an executive committee member on many different levels. But I'm not wearing that hat today.

[00:02:23] But the one thing I did want to talk about. Let's see. I should have had this already pulled up. But it's right, right here.

[00:02:40] I have way too many tabs. This is ridiculous.

[00:02:44] I feel you on that. I feel you on that. I also have like 50, 50 something tabs right now.

[00:02:50] Yep. That sounds about right.

[00:02:52] Managing, maintaining.

[00:02:54] Let's see.

[00:02:55] Let's see. Is this the correct one? Yes. No, that is not the correct one. It was my comment to yours. So it's going to be. So what I wanted to talk about was the FOIA request you did with the CIA.

[00:03:10] Yes. So do you kind of want to just like run down what exactly, like where this started, why you wanted to do it, that sort of stuff, why I get it pulled up?

[00:03:21] Well, this started over two years ago. I mean, you know, there's a lot of rumors that there are feds in the party. And apparently there was a FOIA request done back when Ed Clark was in charge of the party. So this is decades ago.

[00:03:34] And it said that there are feds in the party and that there were operatives who were present when the party was founded. No one can find that FOIA request. I've asked for it. You know, I've asked for all kinds of things.

[00:03:45] And the drama in the LP really like blew up again recently. It reached a stunning crescendo of autistic glory. And, you know, I said, this is, this is suspicious activity. This is suspicious activity. Oh, and then of course, before that, was it like right before our national convention, the FBI said that they were going to crack down on our Facebook.

[00:04:13] Right. And so I had a call with them and our attorney and they basically said, yeah, you know, your, your party's social media assets have been compromised by a foreign hostile government. We can't tell you anything more because it's still under investigation.

[00:04:29] So I said, let's revisit the CIA. Right. It's been a couple of months with the FBI. They're still not being forthright. What can the CIA tell us? And they tell us that they can neither confirm nor deny that there's been any activity in our organization.

[00:04:46] It seems like when we make significant progress, whether it's with communications with former and the likely future president, Donald Trump, whether it's with, you know, fundraising and galvanizing the party through just a fundraising agreement with the Kennedy campaign, like things blow up and people get very unhappy.

[00:05:10] And I'm at a, and I'm at a, and I'm at a, and I'm at a, and I'm at a point where I don't believe that it's realistic to separate the fed operative stuff from the toxic party culture.

[00:05:21] I think the two are related very closely, a product of one another, if not literally one in the same.

[00:05:29] And I just like to untangle that, you know, so, so I still have some time to get in my amended FOIA requests and I've had some people do a little bit of help on that to try to chisel it down a little bit to see if we can actually get something out of them.

[00:05:45] But yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what they say when I send in the revised one.

[00:05:51] So, I mean, it's amazing to me that anybody at this point in history is unaware of how likely of a possibility this is.

[00:06:04] Oh, yeah.

[00:06:07] I mean, I've covered on my show, Cointel Pro.

[00:06:11] Yep.

[00:06:12] I mean, I've been digging into MKUltra for almost a year and a half now.

[00:06:19] I mean, and these things are still happening.

[00:06:22] I just had Ken Silva on recently and talking about PatCon and how it's still happening.

[00:06:31] And I'm just not sure why people would think that the LP is immune from this.

[00:06:39] I'm not sure.

[00:06:40] They just think that we're like irrelevant or we don't matter.

[00:06:45] It doesn't.

[00:06:47] Libertarians don't recognize the incredible like political power and influence we have.

[00:06:52] We're the last people in the room to recognize it.

[00:06:55] The Republicans get it.

[00:06:57] The Democrats get it.

[00:06:59] The government gets it.

[00:07:00] But we just pretend like it's a social club, which is fascinating because I think that is a big part of the Fed operation.

[00:07:06] It's to get us focused on the social club element of it so that we're ineffective.

[00:07:12] And it definitely makes us ineffective.

[00:07:14] But, you know, we're still effective enough to catch a lot of attention and ire from the powers that be.

[00:07:21] So before we dive into what this letter said, I guess without saying too much, what exactly was it that made you think?

[00:07:35] Obviously, this is a likely chance that it's still happening.

[00:07:41] I did a short live stream recently talking about the the the Oedipal mother of the LP and the obsession that some of our members have with bylaws, internal party dicker dicking around, bickering.

[00:08:03] Social media, basically everything except advancing liberty, everything except policy, winning elections like there's a lot.

[00:08:13] There's an intense amount of interest focused on membership and treating it like a social club.

[00:08:18] And it seems to blow up every time we make a significant advancement.

[00:08:24] And I just think that's suspect.

[00:08:26] That's what that's what tipped it off.

[00:08:28] We did this joint fundraising committee agreement with Kennedy.

[00:08:31] People were very angry.

[00:08:32] They said it's a bylaws violation.

[00:08:33] It is not.

[00:08:34] We haven't endorsed him.

[00:08:36] We work with other people all the time.

[00:08:38] You know, we've worked on with the Green Party and the Constitution Party on ballot access lawsuits.

[00:08:43] And we share petitioning.

[00:08:46] One of our LNC members petitioned for Kennedy was a paid petitioner for him.

[00:08:51] But that just kind of flew under the radar.

[00:08:54] Right.

[00:08:54] Wouldn't you think that was a potential conflict of interest?

[00:08:56] Just I'm an adult about it.

[00:08:58] So I don't you know, I'm not going to bust someone's chops because he made a thousand bucks or something working for the Kennedy campaign after he completed working for the Libertarian Party on the signature gathering effort.

[00:09:11] But people really blew up.

[00:09:13] There was a lawsuit filed in Colorado because they said they were going to put Kennedy on the campaign.

[00:09:18] There was a J.C., which they they didn't, actually.

[00:09:21] So that's that's interesting.

[00:09:23] There was a J.C.

[00:09:25] appeal filed, you know, and someone riled people up and got a whole bunch of signatures prior to it actually being written.

[00:09:33] So people unwittingly signed on to a long document that was basically just personally trashing me.

[00:09:39] It was like 15 pages of just like a smear against me calling the party prostitutes and whores.

[00:09:44] Basically, as unprofessional as you could get, like if you wanted to do if you wanted to pay someone to be an agent provocateur, I think like we have the playbook.

[00:09:55] Like this is how you embarrass the party.

[00:09:57] This is how you make people look unprofessional, totally schizo nuts.

[00:10:00] And so that no one wants to work with you.

[00:10:03] And I think, you know, that's that's suspicious.

[00:10:07] I don't think that it's just a coincidence.

[00:10:10] So I filed a FOIA request over it.

[00:10:13] And basically, it's like, yeah, confirmed, you know, something's going on and we don't want to tell you about it.

[00:10:21] Yeah, I I would wholeheartedly have to agree.

[00:10:27] In my mind, it seems as though one of the worst things for the state would be a highly functional, highly organized libertarian party.

[00:10:39] Yep.

[00:10:40] That would be devastating to them.

[00:10:43] Absolutely.

[00:10:44] Absolutely.

[00:10:45] I think they're very upset that we've made positive contact with any GOP group.

[00:10:52] So like, oh, my gosh, you know, what if that bleeds over into one of the two major parties?

[00:10:56] Then we're really toast, you know, and there's disagreement, you know, amongst GOP operatives about whether or not it's a good thing, which I think shows that we're on the right track.

[00:11:06] If they were all 100 percent in agreement and us coming over, I'd be like, hmm, they're trying to capture us, you know.

[00:11:11] But the fact that they're fighting over whether or not they should work with us.

[00:11:15] Very, very good.

[00:11:17] Same with the Democrats to a much lesser extent.

[00:11:19] Most of the people on the left who want to work with us have already ditched the Democratic Party, but occasionally we'll come across one or two good seeds on that side.

[00:11:33] Yeah.

[00:11:33] Could you imagine?

[00:11:34] I mean, if we get a libertarian into a cabinet position in the Trump administration, like glass ceiling is broken.

[00:11:45] We'll be running people for Congress and winning in like eight years.

[00:11:48] It won't be a pipe dream anymore.

[00:11:50] We will shoot right up past it, you know, and all of a sudden we'll have electoral credibility.

[00:11:55] That's what I'm that's what I'm all about.

[00:11:57] Abolish the Department of Education.

[00:12:00] All it takes is one.

[00:12:02] Neocons used to be like a fringe loser, like nerdy kids eat lunch by yourself version of a think tank in D.C.

[00:12:11] And now they run the show.

[00:12:13] Like if they can do it, so can we just take one little foothold, you know.

[00:12:19] People are like, no, you can't do that because it's got to be all or nothing.

[00:12:23] And I'm just like, shut up, nerd.

[00:12:25] Like, I just want to push people in their lockers at this point.

[00:12:27] Just push you and shut up.

[00:12:29] You know, like we are going to do it.

[00:12:31] We are going to take a one at a time.

[00:12:34] Afuera, you know, goodbye Department of Education.

[00:12:37] And then next administration.

[00:12:39] Let's take one more.

[00:12:41] Let's let's just abolish one agency at a time.

[00:12:44] That would be the most insane radical thing that libertarians have ever done.

[00:12:50] I completely agree, which is why it's confusing to me.

[00:12:54] Like just this incredible backlash.

[00:12:57] Yeah.

[00:12:58] Some people act as though that if we won right now anyways, that we would be able to go in there and, you know, chew bubble gum or kick ass.

[00:13:09] And well, we're all out of bubble gum and we won't be able to kick ass.

[00:13:13] So, yeah.

[00:13:15] And I mean, it's like there's so many things to unpack with the level of naivety.

[00:13:21] You think that you could just go in totally green and withstand deep state pressure?

[00:13:31] No, it's a hard job.

[00:13:34] It's not like you just walk in and say you're fired, you're fired.

[00:13:37] And then everyone's fired.

[00:13:37] It's a hard job.

[00:13:39] You have to work for it.

[00:13:40] You have to dig through a bunch of paperwork.

[00:13:42] You have to justify firing a lot of them.

[00:13:45] You don't just get to fire people point blank.

[00:13:47] A lot of people have pensions.

[00:13:50] You got to fight through that paperwork.

[00:13:52] Some of it is legislative.

[00:13:54] You know, you've got to battle that.

[00:13:56] Like there's a lot of work to do.

[00:13:59] They want to blackmail you.

[00:14:01] Obviously, they want to murder you.

[00:14:02] You know, if like that's the treatment that Donald Trump got.

[00:14:06] And everybody says he's, you know, oh, he's compromised.

[00:14:09] He's a swamp creature.

[00:14:10] He made a bunch of horrible decisions.

[00:14:11] So he made like two or three good decisions and they want to murder him.

[00:14:16] Like what do you think that it would be like for some one of us, you know, or like Ron Paul?

[00:14:20] You'd be operating your presidency from a panic room.

[00:14:23] Just like, you know, like one like landline phone.

[00:14:28] Yeah.

[00:14:29] It's it's I wish we were smarter.

[00:14:33] Well, and see, I don't think it's even the intelligence thing.

[00:14:38] Well, I do think it's the intelligence thing of some.

[00:14:41] Not all.

[00:14:41] There are very fine people in the Libertarian Party.

[00:14:44] Very fine.

[00:14:45] On both sides.

[00:14:48] I just find it interesting.

[00:14:49] I'm not quite sure what people want.

[00:14:52] Yes.

[00:14:53] Because I came into this party thinking, OK, the system is shit.

[00:15:01] It doesn't care about us.

[00:15:03] It's not going to help us or serve us or do anything.

[00:15:07] And we are an alternative to what has been.

[00:15:14] Well, just what has been.

[00:15:16] And so I don't understand if I can use any part of the system that's against me to make it better for me and everyone I'm going to.

[00:15:30] Yeah, totally.

[00:15:32] I mean, my personal opinion, I would metaphorically burn the party down if it meant that I get more liberty for everyone.

[00:15:41] Yes.

[00:15:42] But there are people who disagree with you.

[00:15:44] And it's because their number one priority is party structure, membership.

[00:15:50] It's a club.

[00:15:51] Like it is.

[00:15:53] It is a club.

[00:15:55] And that's that's like the big reveal, I think, you know, is the priorities.

[00:16:01] It's not about.

[00:16:02] I also think a lot of people are very comfortable complaining about the government and the paradigm shift is just too great for them to be to go from a loser to a winner.

[00:16:14] They're just like, no, like, I don't want to be a winner.

[00:16:18] I want to stay a loser.

[00:16:19] I want to stay the victim of the government.

[00:16:21] I like complaining about it.

[00:16:24] My I've built my whole worldview around, you know, being oppressed.

[00:16:28] It's like the liberty version of a of a social justice warrior.

[00:16:31] I'm oppressed.

[00:16:33] I'm oppressed.

[00:16:34] It's like, well, you don't maybe you don't have to be.

[00:16:36] It's like, shut up.

[00:16:37] That's my identity.

[00:16:40] Yeah.

[00:16:40] You know, I want to change your identity.

[00:16:43] I want to make you better.

[00:16:44] I want you to love your life.

[00:16:46] Oh, I don't I don't want you to pay so much money to the federal government.

[00:16:49] They're like, no.

[00:16:54] So and we'll we'll get into the letter after this, because I do find it incredibly interesting.

[00:16:58] But I would like to know.

[00:17:01] What do you think the reason is these people have.

[00:17:06] I guess historically, but incredibly now are still attracted to the libertarian brand.

[00:17:13] And like they just won't let it go.

[00:17:17] They're mad at their dad.

[00:17:19] I think they're really mad at their dad.

[00:17:21] And and what I mean by that is it's.

[00:17:26] It's about just like rebellion and being oppositional to authority and being, you know, unique and special in that whole process.

[00:17:35] And so you don't want to be a Democrat.

[00:17:37] Right.

[00:17:37] Because that's the party of your dad or your aunt or your uncle or whatever.

[00:17:42] You don't want to be Green Party because that is very heavy in rules and authoritarianism.

[00:17:48] And I say that with love, you know, same same with the Communist Party and Democratic Socialists.

[00:17:54] It's very aggressively rules oriented.

[00:17:57] You have got to follow the rules.

[00:18:00] But here in the Libertarian Party, we often conflate like rules with authoritarianism, which is now a term that I am very annoyed by.

[00:18:11] And I don't use very much because everybody's like, oh, that's so authoritarian.

[00:18:14] Well, OK, at a certain point, like there's there's natural authority.

[00:18:18] There's voluntary authority.

[00:18:20] There's hierarchies that are inherent in the world.

[00:18:22] We don't hate all authority.

[00:18:25] And it's not authoritarian to agree to a set of rules and then do the thing.

[00:18:30] Yeah.

[00:18:31] But we attract the people who just like have oppositional defiance disorder and they really want to belong.

[00:18:38] But they don't play along well enough with others to really belong anywhere else.

[00:18:44] That that would make sense.

[00:18:48] It is always bothered me the attraction that.

[00:18:55] People.

[00:18:56] OK, there's one.

[00:18:59] Set of people.

[00:19:02] I won't name names, but there's there's groups of people who feel as though the core belief of

[00:19:09] libertarianism is to do what thou wilt.

[00:19:13] Right.

[00:19:13] And I just don't believe that.

[00:19:15] I don't either.

[00:19:17] That's the core tenets of like Anton LaVey's Satanism.

[00:19:22] Exactly.

[00:19:23] And that to me is really bothersome.

[00:19:29] I myself used to be a Satanist until I realized that they were more annoying, more annoying than vegans or bicyclists or.

[00:19:42] Wow.

[00:19:43] Even that's aggressive.

[00:19:44] That's shots fired.

[00:19:46] You're more annoying than a cyclist.

[00:19:48] Yeah.

[00:19:49] Yeah.

[00:19:49] It's it's true, though.

[00:19:51] They they are some of the worst because they are the edgelords that are like, oh, I don't like your God.

[00:19:58] What are you going to do about it?

[00:20:00] And it's it's so 90s.

[00:20:02] It is.

[00:20:03] Don't you know we're not mad at Christianity now?

[00:20:06] We're all mad at Donald Trump.

[00:20:09] Yeah.

[00:20:09] Get with the times.

[00:20:11] Exactly.

[00:20:11] It is a little dated.

[00:20:14] Yeah, it's all about libertinism and self-indulgence and no one telling anybody else what to do.

[00:20:23] That's the vibe.

[00:20:24] And that wouldn't fly in any other organization.

[00:20:27] Professional organizations don't allow for that.

[00:20:29] You get fired or you get dismissed, told not to return.

[00:20:33] And that's actually enforced.

[00:20:35] But here we're so uncomfortable with, you know, authority that we sort of we take this permissive attitude towards insane behavior.

[00:20:44] So it's a perfect breeding ground for COINTELPRO tactics.

[00:20:49] Couldn't couldn't be better.

[00:20:51] So it's it's sad.

[00:20:54] You know, everybody's like, why are you so down on the LP all the time, Angela?

[00:20:58] Well, I'm swimming in it 24 seven.

[00:21:02] Take a lot of abuse.

[00:21:03] But I say it with love because I want us to be better.

[00:21:08] And I want the people who are sticking it out to know, like, I see the crap that you get that you go through and that you have to put up with.

[00:21:16] And I don't think it's OK.

[00:21:18] But right now it is worthwhile.

[00:21:21] It's worthwhile trying to clean it up and make them and make something of it because other people, they see how important we are, you know, and we should hold on to that and we should advance.

[00:21:30] We should advance liberty.

[00:21:32] I completely agree.

[00:21:33] And I'll say this to anyone listening, whether you're listening to it live or later on.

[00:21:42] If you don't agree with that.

[00:21:45] I mean, I don't believe that you have to like either I, Angela or anyone else in the party.

[00:21:50] But if you don't agree with the message of what was just said there, I think you need to look at yourself internally.

[00:21:58] I know that might be hard, but you're going to have to and decide whether this is the organization you would like to be involved with.

[00:22:07] I'm sure you might be just as welcome somewhere else.

[00:22:11] So if you can't get with the times.

[00:22:15] But let's go ahead and pull up this letter.

[00:22:19] So exactly what was this letter?

[00:22:23] Oh, well, this is the letter basically denying.

[00:22:29] Denying my FOIA request.

[00:22:32] That's the CIA responding to me and they responded fairly quickly.

[00:22:39] But I get to appeal it.

[00:22:41] So it says it's a final response, but I can appeal it.

[00:22:43] I have 90 days to appeal.

[00:22:45] So and I can just submit a different request, which I will be doing, which I will be doing.

[00:22:52] I've gotten some good advice.

[00:22:53] Tara Reid actually has has connected me with with someone who offered to do some help there.

[00:23:01] So interesting.

[00:23:02] Yeah, she's had some some pretty nasty run ins with the government.

[00:23:05] You know, she was in Russia for a while.

[00:23:06] Couldn't come home.

[00:23:07] Yeah.

[00:23:08] Because of some some claims she had made also maybe related to some claims she had made about Creepy Joe.

[00:23:15] Oh, yes.

[00:23:17] Creepy Joe creeped on her a while back.

[00:23:20] Yes.

[00:23:20] The one that all mainstream media would like to ignore.

[00:23:26] She doesn't exist.

[00:23:27] Me too.

[00:23:28] Except for Tara Reid.

[00:23:29] Yes.

[00:23:32] So I find this interesting that.

[00:23:39] OK, so it says right here in the first paragraph for information or records on the Libertarian National Committee or the National Libertarian Party.

[00:23:52] Your request was assigned the reference number, blah, blah, blah.

[00:23:55] Citing the number.

[00:23:57] In accordance with Section 3.6A of Executive Order 13526, the CIA can neither confirm nor deny the existence or non-existence of records responsive to your request.

[00:24:14] The fact of the existence or non-existence of such records is itself currently and properly classified and is intelligence sources and methods information protected from disclosure by Section 6 of the CIA Act of 1949 as amended.

[00:24:35] Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:24:36] Okay, you get the point.

[00:24:39] How did you take this?

[00:24:41] How did you understand that?

[00:24:43] Well, there's an operation that's probably still going on.

[00:24:50] That's kind of how I took it.

[00:24:52] Yeah.

[00:24:55] At best, I would say that it was incredibly prevalent, although they might subcontract or something.

[00:25:05] It's kind of on the back burner.

[00:25:07] But at worst, it is an active operation, probably involving multiple agencies.

[00:25:16] Yeah.

[00:25:16] And I assume that, you know, everyone's going to wonder that or, you know, jump to the conclusion that it's CIA work.

[00:25:23] I don't know that for sure.

[00:25:26] It's possible, but I think a lot of people are suspect right now.

[00:25:31] I feel more like I walked into sort of the late stage of an operation where it had been active and going for like 20 years and they were pretty hands off at this point.

[00:25:43] That they planted the seeds and things just kind of spun out of control, you know, on their own at a certain point.

[00:25:53] I, yeah, I would say that I would agree, at least from my point of view.

[00:25:57] Obviously, I'm not on the national committee.

[00:26:00] I'm sure things are a little bit different from your position.

[00:26:06] So my perspective was that it kind of seemed like the LP or the LNC is always kind of in their back pocket.

[00:26:20] Because everything seems to come in waves with the intelligence community.

[00:26:25] So even if surveillance is just the only thing, then they're going to surveil you and then kind of discard you because nothing's going on or they serve their purpose.

[00:26:36] They're done.

[00:26:37] They are on to something else.

[00:26:41] And it seemed like maybe this last convention, which of course took place in their backyard.

[00:26:48] Yeah.

[00:26:49] There were a lot of really insane things that I don't think would have happened unless there was some sort of outside influence.

[00:26:59] I think that's very possible.

[00:27:02] I don't know if I'm completely persuaded that they were active.

[00:27:07] I mean, what really galls me about the whole thing is, you know, seven rounds of voting.

[00:27:14] Sure.

[00:27:14] I signed up for it, but that hasn't that hasn't happened in quite a while.

[00:27:19] You know, by the we we gaveled in at 9 a.m.

[00:27:22] We gaveled out at 1 a.m.

[00:27:24] That's a lot of hours.

[00:27:26] Yeah.

[00:27:27] Many of the people who voted in our current presidential candidate are not actively supporting him.

[00:27:34] In fact, some of them are actively supporting another candidate now, two other candidates.

[00:27:40] Yes.

[00:27:42] And I think I think that's suspicious.

[00:27:47] I don't know necessarily that they're on anyone's payroll, but it does seem like at least behavior that was influenced.

[00:27:56] By, you know.

[00:27:59] I don't know, some sort of fed operation.

[00:28:02] Something.

[00:28:02] Something.

[00:28:04] So I just keep going back to I don't understand because I've seen people, especially when you posted this.

[00:28:12] I saw people or anything else related to it.

[00:28:16] People will say things like, oh, this is so unprofessional or how could you do such a thing?

[00:28:22] I actually even had somebody that I was acquaintances with, not friends with per se, but I had invited somebody on.

[00:28:36] And because I had commented on something of yours stating that I that when I had commented my belief that I believe the party has been infiltrated, then that was enough excuse to not come on.

[00:28:51] And that's fine.

[00:28:53] Nobody owes me anything.

[00:28:55] That's fine.

[00:28:56] But I just thought it was weird.

[00:28:58] I don't understand why we're so sensitive about this.

[00:29:02] I mean.

[00:29:03] I mean, what would be the basis for saying that we haven't been like what on on what basis do we defend ourselves?

[00:29:13] Yeah.

[00:29:13] You know, how do you defend the behavior of people within the party who scream and swear, who look unprofessional, who who get naked on stage, get naked on stage, who engage in behavior that in any other organization they would be dismissed, fired, expelled.

[00:29:29] How do we defend that?

[00:29:31] I mean, that's, you know, exhibit A.

[00:29:34] Is it be like, don't we all think it's suspicious that there were seven rounds of voting?

[00:29:41] Um, I, I just find it suspicious and I would find it suspicious if it had been for Lars Mapstead or Rechtenwald or anyone like that.

[00:29:52] You know, and why do we end up with a presidential candidate?

[00:29:57] And I, at this point, it's not an insult.

[00:30:00] It's not a criticism of him.

[00:30:01] It's the people who propped him up that you're not even willing to support your own guy.

[00:30:06] I think it's a pretty crappy thing to do to him.

[00:30:08] I spend two to three hours a week working on this campaign behind the scenes.

[00:30:13] So I have to because I'm the national chair.

[00:30:16] People are like, you know, support our candidate.

[00:30:18] I'm so sorry.

[00:30:19] You know what I should be doing instead?

[00:30:20] I should go tweet about him on social media so he can get ratioed.

[00:30:24] That's the only way to show support.

[00:30:27] It's like, yeah, we're just not a serious like how to walk me through how that's a serious reaction.

[00:30:32] You don't show enough support by doing enough tweets about him.

[00:30:36] Okay.

[00:30:38] It got me.

[00:30:40] Yeah.

[00:30:44] I found it interesting.

[00:30:48] So like it or don't, you did one of the most amazing things that I have seen or that I know of from party history.

[00:30:59] And that was have Donald Trump show up.

[00:31:04] Yes.

[00:31:05] Obviously, you weren't doing everything single handedly and everyone involved should get equal praise because that is amazing.

[00:31:15] They were rocking.

[00:31:15] And TJ Ferreira, who is not in the Mises caucus, was like indispensable on that.

[00:31:22] That man worked so hard on that convention.

[00:31:25] Kathy Gattiscavige.

[00:31:26] Amazing.

[00:31:27] Andrew Watkins.

[00:31:28] Andrew Watkins.

[00:31:28] Andrew Watkins.

[00:31:29] Like we had, we had a great team.

[00:31:31] Justin Blankenship.

[00:31:32] A lot of people and staff like was, was exhausted too.

[00:31:36] Um, yeah, I went and I met with Donald Trump and I negotiated with him because he loves to negotiate.

[00:31:43] So that was fun to get him to our convention.

[00:31:46] You know, he also brought with him like a whole like Liberty GOP entourage.

[00:31:52] Cash Patel, um, got a shout out.

[00:31:56] Mike Lee.

[00:31:57] We convinced to get on stage and do an in the Fed like cheer.

[00:32:01] It was so cool.

[00:32:04] Um, yeah.

[00:32:05] And we got him to, dude, he, he's going to free Russell Brick.

[00:32:09] People are like, he won't do that.

[00:32:10] Well, he said he would do it again at Bitcoin.

[00:32:12] And he told me to my face, he would do it.

[00:32:14] They're like, we don't believe anything.

[00:32:15] Well, okay.

[00:32:16] I guess you're just like hopelessly blackpilled, you know?

[00:32:18] Yeah.

[00:32:18] I believe anything.

[00:32:20] Like, yeah, exactly.

[00:32:22] Yeah.

[00:32:22] Like being in politics.

[00:32:24] Yeah.

[00:32:25] Like go live in the woods, you know, and hope that you don't get Ruby ridged because eventually

[00:32:29] you're going to have to interact with them.

[00:32:31] Hate to say it.

[00:32:32] Well, and why, why automatically just say, oh, well he didn't, he won't, he can't, he's

[00:32:40] lying.

[00:32:42] It's all, it's all fake.

[00:32:44] Like I don't necessarily think like without the public pressure, he would.

[00:32:51] Right.

[00:32:51] Right.

[00:32:52] Right.

[00:32:53] I, I'm also hopeful that he will.

[00:32:56] I want to be wrong that he's not a politician.

[00:32:59] I want to be wrong with every politician.

[00:33:01] Sure.

[00:33:01] Of course.

[00:33:02] The stereotype is not correct.

[00:33:05] I want to be able to believe in that.

[00:33:09] I just can't, but I'm also not going to just poo poo everything.

[00:33:15] Right.

[00:33:15] That seems unhealthy to me.

[00:33:17] I totally agree.

[00:33:19] It's like, well, what is the point of engaging in any of this?

[00:33:21] If you don't believe any of it is, is like possible.

[00:33:26] That's where it's like this, like toxic social club.

[00:33:29] Um, it's like, you're living in a compartmentalized worldview where you, you're saying one thing,

[00:33:37] but you don't actually believe it.

[00:33:38] And then you experience massive cognitive dissonance when you make any gains.

[00:33:43] And then you reject your own progress.

[00:33:47] Um, you reject your march towards your goal and then you drag everyone down.

[00:33:51] That's the, the eat a pull mother of the LP I was talking about.

[00:33:55] Um, it's very toxic.

[00:34:00] So, and we'll, we'll move on after this, uh, just to keep flow moving.

[00:34:06] But I want to say the one thing as, as somebody who was unable to attend, uh, the DC convention

[00:34:13] and I'm still kicking myself that I was unable to, however, the thing that upset me the most,

[00:34:21] and I don't care what side, what caucus and anything, if you claim to be a libertarian and

[00:34:29] you were in DC and at the, uh, the, the Trump speech, which maybe he shouldn't have read off

[00:34:37] a prompter, but okay, that's his choice.

[00:34:40] Um, we had the entire world watching and listening and you had a chance.

[00:34:47] You as in all of us had a chance to let the entire world know what we thought.

[00:34:53] And in my opinion, it didn't go as bad as it could have, but it kind of seems squandered.

[00:35:00] It was still a little embarrassing, um, because people are so allergic to Donald Trump.

[00:35:06] It's just like, they care more about screaming and making a fool of themselves in front of Donald

[00:35:12] Trump than they care about advancing Liberty.

[00:35:14] Yes, it is.

[00:35:15] It is not like what this, the last two years being national chair has just been so incredibly

[00:35:21] revealing.

[00:35:21] Like people do not care about advancing an agenda.

[00:35:26] They don't care about lowering taxes.

[00:35:28] They don't care about bringing the troops home.

[00:35:31] Um, they don't care about having less people blown up overseas.

[00:35:35] They don't care about COVID stuff.

[00:35:38] They care about Robert's rules of order.

[00:35:41] They care about online meetings.

[00:35:45] Um, they care about having a title that they can put on Facebook.

[00:35:49] Like, you know, I'm the secretary of the county something.

[00:35:53] And there's like eight people.

[00:35:55] That is the highest priority.

[00:35:57] Now, obviously there are people who do care, you know, but, but wow.

[00:36:03] The number of people who do not and who care strictly about like their social club or their

[00:36:10] cult of Ronar, like the, the numbers are shocking.

[00:36:15] I think I would have to agree.

[00:36:18] Um, I think what really started it for me was seeing the desired reaction to the COVID measures.

[00:36:30] Yep.

[00:36:31] Um, that was eye opening, which is kind of, you know, what led me to Reno and, uh, you know, with, uh, me and my vice chair here in, uh, my county and my wife and everything.

[00:36:46] And we all went down to, this is unacceptable.

[00:36:50] The libertarian party cannot be like this.

[00:36:52] And it was eye opening then.

[00:36:54] And it's been eye opening ever since.

[00:36:57] Yep.

[00:36:58] It's like, I don't know how you do it.

[00:37:00] Well, I mean, so, you know, we spent, you know, like over half an hour ragging on it.

[00:37:07] There's good stuff too.

[00:37:08] And that's how I keep doing it.

[00:37:10] So, you know, Leah McCollum and Sid Dowd had a meeting with, in Montana with another, um, senatorial candidate in the GOP, Tim Sheehy.

[00:37:20] Uh, Sid also got to meet with president Trump and got to talk about defend the guard and Tim Sheehy, Tim Sheehy ended up endorsing it.

[00:37:27] He's likely going to be the next, uh, senator in Montana.

[00:37:31] That's amazing.

[00:37:32] You know, I get to talk to Mike Lee sometimes about trying to advance, defend the guard and other Liberty things.

[00:37:37] Yeah.

[00:37:38] I got to talk to, you know, I get to talk to Thomas Massey about it occasionally.

[00:37:42] He, uh, is the one I think that gets a pass.

[00:37:44] Like we don't all hate Thomas Massey, which is such a relief.

[00:37:49] Um, we're going to get a libertarian and president Trump's cabinet.

[00:37:53] That's amazing.

[00:37:53] We're going to abolish the department of education.

[00:37:55] We're going to get Ross Ulbrich free.

[00:37:57] All of these things are like, they make it so worthwhile.

[00:38:01] And also Kennedy, even though he's, he's not likely to win the presidential candidacy, we got him to commit to a bunch of libertarian stuff too.

[00:38:09] Especially the Colorado LP.

[00:38:12] And that's huge because that gets it out into the world and people are hearing about it and they're like, oh, you know, that's a thing.

[00:38:19] What is that?

[00:38:20] Let's, let's keep doing that.

[00:38:21] So we do make, you know, we make incredible wins.

[00:38:24] Um, I'm planning to, two more, uh, huge rallies.

[00:38:29] They're going to be huge.

[00:38:30] Another rage against the war machine rally, September 28th and rescue the Republic on September 29th.

[00:38:38] Talking about, uh, basically Western values, reclaiming them, never ceding the linguistic battle, you know, on that, on that front.

[00:38:46] And, um, you know, talking about advancing libertarianism, medical freedom, free speech, you know, uh, anti-surveillance family sovereignty.

[00:38:57] So I'm excited.

[00:38:59] Like there's a lot of cool stuff that, that happens in spite of the cult of Ronar and, uh, the Oedipal affliction that we have, the bureaucracy.

[00:39:09] Yeah.

[00:39:11] So I, I would like to absolutely agree with you.

[00:39:15] I am incredibly white pilled, even though if you talk to me, it kind of seems I'm not, I mean, I'm, I'm having a conversation with you.

[00:39:25] I, I think it's important to have a conversation with you.

[00:39:27] I think it's incredibly important for me to keep covering certain topics on my show, even though every time I do anything like super libertarian, it's not even close to the numbers of other things.

[00:39:42] But I still think it's important.

[00:39:46] And I, I am very hopeful for the future.

[00:39:52] I, I think it's going to work out no matter what.

[00:39:55] Yes.

[00:39:56] I love it.

[00:39:57] And this is just another speed bump.

[00:40:02] I'm not quite sure how we handle it.

[00:40:04] Um, the one thing I will say to anyone who, uh, is not a friendly to me or anyone else trying to work within the party.

[00:40:16] I don't want anyone to fail.

[00:40:19] If you have a better idea, stop telling me about it and go do it.

[00:40:24] And I will eat my words.

[00:40:26] If you have something better, that works better.

[00:40:30] But here's the thing is maybe something doesn't work in every county or every state.

[00:40:35] Just go do it somewhere there.

[00:40:38] I want everyone to succeed.

[00:40:39] That doesn't mean we have to be friends.

[00:40:42] Like, I don't understand why this is difficult for, uh, supposedly a bunch of, uh, adults.

[00:40:49] I use that term loosely, but I, I don't know.

[00:40:54] I get frustrated with that.

[00:40:55] However, I do want to ask how, how are, um, executive committee members all across the country?

[00:41:06] How are we supposed to sell the party itself?

[00:41:11] Try to get these new members in with such negative press.

[00:41:17] Um, you got to focus on the good press, find the good press and talk that up.

[00:41:22] Breitbart has written two really good articles about us recently.

[00:41:26] Complete, um, if you have Gmail set Google alerts, you know, for libertarian party, that's a really good way to find it.

[00:41:35] Uh, I get, you know, it's in my inbox every single day.

[00:41:38] Push the rally.

[00:41:39] You've got rage against the war machine.

[00:41:41] Uh, you've got rescue the Republic.

[00:41:44] The website for that one is join the resistance.org.

[00:41:46] Uh, super, super excited.

[00:41:49] Just focus on the good stuff.

[00:41:50] Focus on some of your down ticket candidates.

[00:41:52] Uh, Florida has a bunch of really good candidates.

[00:41:56] Um, Michigan has a, has a candidate they just announced for Senate.

[00:42:00] It's very exciting.

[00:42:01] There's there's, yeah, there's good stuff going on.

[00:42:04] You know, we just have to, we have to focus on that.

[00:42:08] And some of the bad stuff just dismiss it as like corporate media hates us, you know?

[00:42:14] Yeah.

[00:42:14] They, they, they hate everything that's good and virtuous.

[00:42:17] They, they don't have, you know, like they're not like, oh, look, families, um, doing fun stuff, you know, wholesome things over here.

[00:42:27] Like they hate everything good and virtuous and worthwhile.

[00:42:30] And so if they hate us, then, you know, we're on the right team.

[00:42:34] Um, so I was, uh, incredibly impressed and I swear, I'm not trying to make this like a brown nosing episode.

[00:42:44] I swear, but I just don't think you get enough positive reinforcement.

[00:42:49] At least the, the loudest voices, even though there are few of them, I don't know.

[00:42:55] They are the loudest.

[00:42:56] Um, I think you did a great job handling your, your approach after the convention, uh, involving chase of how to balance that considering he is such a polarizing figure.

[00:43:12] Right.

[00:43:12] Um, and I never would have thought of that.

[00:43:16] I think it's, I think it's great.

[00:43:18] Um, so that, that's why I was asking, um, in my County, I had received some very angry emails.

[00:43:28] Um, and of which that I couldn't say that they were wrong.

[00:43:34] Um, but because of chase, they wanted nothing to do with the party.

[00:43:40] Right.

[00:43:40] Obviously they can make that choice.

[00:43:42] Uh, it's a problem.

[00:43:44] Yeah.

[00:43:44] And I tried to persuade it.

[00:43:46] It's just like, look, we're not doing national.

[00:43:49] We're still here.

[00:43:51] We've still got County commission meetings.

[00:43:53] We've still got city council meetings, but some people didn't want to listen to that.

[00:43:58] And I get it.

[00:43:59] Um, I think it's the wrong choice.

[00:44:01] And that that's why I was asking is because it's.

[00:44:05] So here's what I think we should do here's.

[00:44:07] And that's why I took the approach that I took.

[00:44:10] Right.

[00:44:11] Right.

[00:44:11] If you are chase Oliver fan, you're probably having a meltdown right now as you watch this, but whatever.

[00:44:15] If you're a chase Oliver fan, you should support chase.

[00:44:19] Um, we need to maintain ballot access.

[00:44:22] It's going to be a very difficult challenge.

[00:44:25] It's going to be a difficult time, right?

[00:44:27] Uh, because Kennedy's on the ballot.

[00:44:29] It's very crowded with Cornell West too.

[00:44:32] Um, it is what it is.

[00:44:33] That's, that's what we've got.

[00:44:35] Go ahead and support your candidate.

[00:44:37] That's a good idea.

[00:44:38] If you hate the presidential ticket, you should still support the party because we need to

[00:44:46] maintain our strength and, and continue to be the most powerful voting bloc in the country.

[00:44:52] That's how we got Donald Trump to agree to free Russell Brick and to agree to abolish the

[00:44:56] Department of Education and put a libertarian in this cabinet.

[00:44:59] And that's why I still have a working relationship with that campaign.

[00:45:02] And they've been very gracious and helpful to me.

[00:45:05] Um, and that's, that's a very good thing because they're likely to win the next presidential election

[00:45:12] and they are going to include us and some of our policies and views and ideas.

[00:45:17] If you want to see that happen, you should continue to support the party.

[00:45:21] It doesn't matter if you hate the presidential candidate, if you're not going to vote at all,

[00:45:25] if you're going to vote for someone else, like we are more than that, which is why we

[00:45:29] continue to exist outside of election years.

[00:45:34] Well said, uh, honestly, I'm going to chop that up and, uh, probably share it locally here.

[00:45:40] Nice.

[00:45:41] Yes, please, please do.

[00:45:45] So one thing I do want to ask if you have any, any ideas about how this, how this gets taken

[00:45:52] care of, but whether who, whoever has infiltrated the party, I don't think it's a, if they have,

[00:46:00] I think it is, uh, they have, what are we going to do about that? Because we can't just do nothing,

[00:46:08] but obviously we can't like start pointing fingers and kicking people out.

[00:46:12] Right. It's not, it turns into a witch hunt. I mean, it was already a witch hunt, right?

[00:46:17] So what I wanted to do was just rip the bandaid off. Like, let's get a little sunlight on it.

[00:46:21] Let's see what's going on. So I will be submitting an amended FOIA request. I will also be submitting

[00:46:27] one to the NSA. I will be submitting a separate one to the FBI. I've gotten some insight on how to do it

[00:46:33] so that they'll actually give me data. And if a majority of us can behave ourselves,

[00:46:41] uh, we will get a couple of libertarians into the administration and we will have a better

[00:46:46] opportunity to actually dig and find out who and what the heck is going on. And, uh, that's,

[00:46:54] that's definitely my, my long-term plan. We, we need a little bit of help on this one.

[00:47:02] So do you have any recommendations, uh, any advice, maybe just from personal experience,

[00:47:10] what to do in the short term?

[00:47:14] Yeah. I mean, just keep supporting the party and supporting down ticket candidates

[00:47:18] and stay away from crazy people, you know, stay away from that. You don't need that in your life,

[00:47:25] you know, block, mute, do all the things. Also social media is not the end all be all of

[00:47:32] libertarianism. You can make so much more of an impact by going to just like one city council

[00:47:38] meeting every three months, something like that. Try to get on a subcommittee, try to fill an empty

[00:47:44] appointed position. Every time you get on, just try to cut the budget, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut,

[00:47:48] cut the budget, cut spending. You will improve a lot of people's lives.

[00:47:54] Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I, I have an issue with people who tend to give me their opinion about

[00:48:03] world politics and yet they can't tell me who their city councilmen are. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of this

[00:48:11] corruption happens at your city council meetings, your county commission. Um, in fact, I just watched

[00:48:17] our county hand over, it was close to $150,000 for new, um, license plate cameras. Uh, and the

[00:48:28] justification was of course, because if there happened to be a criminal, then we would be able

[00:48:35] to snap their license plate. And that's worth the money is in this one off situation that will probably

[00:48:43] never happen. Um, and I just can't believe that nobody questioned that that could possibly be

[00:48:50] abused. Yep. So, uh, this happens all the time, uh, in, because of COVID, a lot of these meetings

[00:48:58] are even streamed now. So you can watch them on YouTube or Facebook. Uh, you have very little

[00:49:05] excuses not to attend or even very so often. Um, the one thing I would like to bring up because I do

[00:49:15] think that this is a problem and I do think you make a really good, um, really good point is

[00:49:21] focusing on things that we actually can change. Yes. Um, however, you should definitely arm yourself

[00:49:30] with knowledge. I am always a big fan of this. And one thing I would recommend, I'll post this,

[00:49:38] uh, in the description as well, but it's actually an old article written by John Marks.

[00:49:43] Oh, that is a good one. How to spot a spook. Yes. Um, so some of it's dated, of course, um,

[00:49:52] um, and it is still informative. Um, I, I would recommend, uh, nobody to do the witch hunt thing.

[00:50:04] I mean, that's just a waste of time and it's not going to help anyone anyways. However, at least it

[00:50:10] could help you avoid certain situations, getting caught up with certain people and it could keep

[00:50:15] you focused. Yes. So, um, I highly recommend this article and even if you just want to read it for

[00:50:24] a laugh, it's kind of, it's still just worth it. And so I'll make sure and post that. Um, but that is

[00:50:30] something I wanted, wanted to mention because I mean, these aren't great people with great intentions.

[00:50:39] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:50:40] Absolutely. And we can't really remove the parasite. And so we've got to figure out how to

[00:50:46] work around them. Yeah. And yeah, well, maybe we can, I mean, it takes a lot of work. The problem

[00:50:52] is the more energy I expend, and this is, this is why they do it. Right. The more energy I expend on

[00:50:59] them, removals, disciplinary action, drawing attention, agendizing it, discussing it, the less energy I have

[00:51:07] to spend on advancing liberty, whether it's policy candidates, you know? And so I have to be very

[00:51:14] judicious with my time. People are like, why didn't you remove this person? Why didn't you try that?

[00:51:17] I'm like, well, if I do, it's going to take like 22 hours in a week. Do you want me to do that?

[00:51:23] Do you want me to do this? It's also like one of the reasons I don't spend a lot of time defending

[00:51:27] myself against like, you know, in particular one person right now who spends all day attacking me

[00:51:33] on social media. I'm working on like a candidate fundraising live stream. I'm trying to collect

[00:51:40] polling data for a presidential candidate. I have media interviews. I have to deal with the budget

[00:51:48] amendments and finances and staff and talk to the Trump campaign and talk to the Kennedy campaign

[00:51:54] and talk about the defend the guard and plan two rallies. And it's like, when you want me to carve

[00:51:59] like time out of my day to do something, it needs to be something that's really worthwhile.

[00:52:07] So dealing with internal party drama, like I try to contain all of that into the smallest little piece

[00:52:14] possible. Yeah. And it's not your job. I would like to point that out. Yeah. At a certain point,

[00:52:26] you know, removal and dealing with toxicity, like it's probably going to have to be done. But right

[00:52:32] now, like we're in the home stretch, you know, like the elections are coming up really soon. I've just got

[00:52:37] to do everything I can to make sure our candidates are supported by the way, if you're a candidate,

[00:52:42] make sure you get connected with our candidate, um, candidate support resources. You can get a

[00:52:48] website, um, at shop.lp.org. You can get in touch with our, um, political director, Nathan Fatal. He

[00:52:55] has classes twice a week. Brian McWilliams, our comms directors doing a training. Like we have,

[00:53:00] we have stuff for you. Uh, so focus on that, not all this other crap.

[00:53:05] It's actually really good to know. Uh, I myself am a candidate and had no idea. Um,

[00:53:11] yes, it might, might've been my fault though. Just kind of tuning everything out, uh, trying to focus

[00:53:17] on, on things at the homesteads, but we want, yeah, we want you to get the things that you need.

[00:53:25] So where do you see everything going? And then not just with the libertarian party, but just kind of

[00:53:32] large picture things because everything looks incredibly hopeless. Uh, it looks, it looks bad.

[00:53:39] Um, so where do you see things going and what do you think people should be focusing on that could

[00:53:50] possibly give them hope? Because it seems like it's in short order these days. Well, let's,

[00:53:56] you know, remember Javier Malay just turned things around in Argentina and that place was a disaster

[00:54:02] zone. Like they were going to become the next Venezuela. Inflation was so crazy that people couldn't

[00:54:07] even post prices in grocery stores. It would change so often during the day. It was like, well,

[00:54:13] you know, let me Google it and see how much it's supposed to cost right now. Um, you know,

[00:54:18] I'm very white pilled. I am eternally hopelessly optimistic because I think that human potential

[00:54:24] and also God's providence is going to crush under heel, like whatever evil comes our way. And,

[00:54:30] you know, maybe we're, we're right now on the cusp of, I think, you know, um, weak times,

[00:54:37] you know, and strong men. And I think that if we can get through this election, if it doesn't get S-T-O-L-E-N,

[00:54:51] then we're going to have an opportunity for libertarianism to start to grow.

[00:54:56] And we'll be able to plant a seed at the federal level. And in eight to 12 years,

[00:55:01] we may be in a radically different country. Um, and I think that the Democrats did not put their,

[00:55:08] they did not send their best. And so that's a really good thing because it shows that they're

[00:55:12] very weak right now. And they're just like, look, we don't have anything. So we're just going to go

[00:55:16] balls to the wall because why not? And so as long as people aren't, don't go insane and don't vote for

[00:55:22] Tim Walls, the, the socialist, um, I think we'll be all right, you know? And then we have all these

[00:55:28] incredible opportunities for us as libertarians. And I think that the woke stuff is, has gotten,

[00:55:35] it's reached a crescendo and there's backlash against it. And people want to have, um, they want

[00:55:41] to have a little bit of a return to healthy human relationships, laughter, family, you know, like

[00:55:49] normal dating, things that are rooted in biology, uh, while at the same time, extending a little grace

[00:55:56] and compassion to people who fall outside of those parameters without, you know, lynching and madness

[00:56:01] and insanity. So I feel like things are going in a, in a good direction and, you know, I'm here for it.

[00:56:08] And I just want to encourage it, keep it going. So, I mean, like I said, I'm also white pilled because

[00:56:17] I feel as though no matter what we will come out on the other side much better. Although it's just a

[00:56:25] really bumpy ride. It's not fun. It's incredibly stressful. It is, it is, it is stressful. I like a

[00:56:34] little stress. Yeah. I, I actually thrive under pressure. Um, although I like a break. Yeah. I,

[00:56:42] I feel you on that. I'm like, please November get here. I just want to get through it.

[00:56:47] Exactly. But then we get November and then we get the holidays and that's, I just want maybe January

[00:56:55] to come around and if it could be warm. I like Christmas. I'm ready for Christmas. I want Christmas

[00:57:02] time. Thanksgiving. It's pretty good too. No, I'm all the Halloween guy. Um, I love Halloween too.

[00:57:08] I'm, I'm getting, I'm getting a costume together for my toddler. Oh, he's going to be a troll from

[00:57:13] trolls. Little baby branch, little blue troll wick. Could be fun. I love it. Um, I do have this

[00:57:25] question and I've been pondering it to myself. I have, I, I run off of this. I don't even think

[00:57:35] I should call it a philosophy, but it just an idiom, I guess that you should never put all your

[00:57:42] eggs in one basket. Uh, the bottom of the basket falls out and you have no more eggs. What,

[00:57:50] what do you think should be, uh, at least from your perspective, maybe some alternatives that

[00:57:58] what if voting doesn't work, what are we going to do? Wait and just vote harder next time. Um,

[00:58:07] I think, I believe that to be unrealistic. Um, so what are some other things that you think that

[00:58:13] people should be looking at or, uh, maybe even just promote or do themselves? What, what's something

[00:58:21] that you would recommend? Oh, I mean, I think that if voting completely is shown to be fraudulent or

[00:58:31] completely failed system and we're, we're going to find out soon. I think, um, I think we'll be on the

[00:58:38] cusp of national divorce. And at that point, we need to encourage our state and semi-local county

[00:58:47] level leaders to do it peacefully and non-violently. And that, that moment in time is going to take

[00:58:54] tremendous moral courage. It's going to take moral courage to break away. And it's going to take moral

[00:58:59] courage to do it peacefully because there are a lot of very angry, aggrieved people in this country,

[00:59:05] um, who, you know, I think have the, the, would certainly have the right to defend themselves.

[00:59:13] And I think that they probably see justification for violence and, you know, you pray to God or

[00:59:21] whoever it is that someone will stay their hand because I certainly can commiserate with the way

[00:59:29] that they feel. But, um, you know, we need, we would need peaceful national divorce at that point.

[00:59:35] And I think that there's an appetite for it. It definitely does seem that way. Um,

[00:59:41] Texit, Texit. So public of Florida. Sorry.

[00:59:49] That's okay. Disney can be off on their own. Uh, they're dropping off anyways. So, um,

[00:59:57] how do you think it would go? Is, is it, obviously it's going to be bumpy that there's too many people

[01:00:03] involved, too many emotions for it to not, but I mean, do you think we're going to go the temple

[01:00:09] route, you know, that some of them are, or would it actually be probably a bit more chilled out than

[01:00:18] that? I, I mean, I'm hopeful that it would be more chilled out. You know, I think that you're going

[01:00:24] to, at some point there's going to be rioting and violence, whether you have civil war or not.

[01:00:31] That's what we saw in 2020, uh, with the BLM mostly peaceful protests, which were not mostly peaceful,

[01:00:38] uh, mostly peaceful fires, uh, mostly peaceful, what billion, billion with a B dollars in damage

[01:00:43] to the Santa Monica promenade, which was a place I used to hang out at and enjoyed shopping and eating

[01:00:49] at. Um, but I think that you would see things like Texit, you know, and you would probably start

[01:00:56] to see it from the libertarian-ish mountain states as well. People saying we've had enough

[01:01:02] where we're, you know, maybe get your act together, federal government, rest of you states, get your

[01:01:09] act together and maybe we'll revisit it. But right now we're, we're stepping out, we're doing our own

[01:01:13] thing. There are also states, I think Arkansas tried to do, they passed something about trying to get

[01:01:18] back on a gold standard. And I don't think that that was necessarily like a fully functional thing, but I

[01:01:23] think it might've allowed gold to be traded as a medium of exchange. You're going to start to see more

[01:01:29] and more things like that. And someone's going to just walk away. New Hampshire is always trying to walk

[01:01:33] away. So, uh, I think that's good, um, because it gives people a path out, you know, besides shooting

[01:01:42] their way out. And while lots of people fantasize about that, I don't think a hundred killdozers

[01:01:51] is, um, is the best thing for us because I just don't think, I don't, I don't like the idea of people

[01:01:57] dying. You know, let's see if we can do it without that. I, yeah, I'm with you. I, I don't either. Uh,

[01:02:05] in fact, the thought of genuine civil war or armed rebellion, it just does scare the hell out of me.

[01:02:16] Um, just how things are these days. I have no clue how that would work out. This isn't the 1860s

[01:02:25] anymore. Um, so it, it would be very concerning to me. The, the thing I hope people realize,

[01:02:34] and let me know what you think about this. First of all, we, violence would be entirely,

[01:02:42] entirely useless. The government understands the language of violence as they are the monopoly of

[01:02:51] violence. Yeah. And they, they want us to respond with violence. They're ready for us to respond with

[01:02:58] violence. And so it would be over before it even began at that point. And so that's going to be

[01:03:05] the absolute worst choice. Um, I mean, I, yeah, but the Viet Cong fought off the United States military

[01:03:15] in, in, in circles. And so I'm not saying that we can't do it. I'm saying it's a last resort and

[01:03:23] a hundred percent. Yeah. It wouldn't be a good experience. Uh, there's a really good book about

[01:03:28] guerrilla warfare and why it is superior to all other forms of warfare. And it's called the war of

[01:03:34] the flea. I highly recommend it. It is what I base a lot of my political strategy off of the war of the

[01:03:40] flea. The war of the flea. It's one I've never heard of before. Very good. It's short. Very good

[01:03:47] read. I'll, I'll have to add that to my list. The war of the flea. Um, I think this is probably a good

[01:03:58] place to wrap, but I do want to know if, if you could tell anyone who would actually, you think would

[01:04:07] actually listen, what, what would you like somebody to know whether they don't like you or have left the

[01:04:13] party, uh, whatever it is, what, if you could sit them down, what would you like to say?

[01:04:21] If you had one shot to save the lives of maybe a thousand people in the middle East,

[01:04:29] there's warmongers in office. There's neocons. We didn't get foreign policy, but we got a little bit

[01:04:35] of influence. And if you have the opportunity to influence someone to just spare the lives of like

[01:04:41] a thousand people, some of them are women, some of them are children. They're farmers. They're rural

[01:04:46] people who've never done anything to hurt us or anyone else. Would you take it just one shot? And

[01:04:52] I think that the correct answer is yes. And I'm here a hundred percent for that. And that's what I'm

[01:04:57] doing for us. And I want our party to be those people who spare those lives. And I think that,

[01:05:02] you know, like, like it or not, like that's what I'm here to do. And that's why I'm trying to run

[01:05:07] this ball to the end zone right now. I want to save as many lives as possible. So there we are.

[01:05:16] Hey, Angela, I would like to thank you so much for coming on. Um, I know things are really busy

[01:05:23] these days. So I just, I really appreciate you taking the time. Um, I definitely got to say that

[01:05:32] I keep watching what you post on your social media and stuff, because it actually does make me feel

[01:05:37] better about the party. Um, and that's not to say that you shouldn't be criticized if there was ever

[01:05:45] anything. Like I, that's not anything. Like I said, I didn't want to make this a brown nosing episode,

[01:05:51] but it's like, I don't understand the, the, not being able to be an adult. I did. It frustrates me

[01:05:59] and I can work with people. I don't like to be able to do something. I see the, this bigger picture

[01:06:08] and I just, I don't, I don't, I don't even know what to say. And I'm sure you feel the same at this

[01:06:14] point, but, um, I just got to keep on keeping on. Yeah. It's worth life's the garden. Dig it.

[01:06:21] That's right. That's right. But, um, let everyone know where they can find you, uh, where they can send

[01:06:28] their hate mail. And yes, you can find me on Twitter at Angela for LNC chair. I block, uh, generously.

[01:06:36] Um, you can, uh, if you like the work I'm doing, you can support me on Patreon locals or sub stack.

[01:06:42] I stream, um, on YouTube, uh, once, once a week at least and, uh, do a lot of other cool stuff.

[01:06:49] Find me. I'm out there. Hey, thank you. Once again, um, hang out for just a second and we'll wrap

[01:06:56] this up on the backend. Thank you so much for tuning into rise to Liberty, make sure and go

[01:07:00] to rise to liberty.com slash links. Uh, it will pull up everything where we are. Uh, we've always got

[01:07:08] new things coming out, uh, about ready to drop a massive thread on, uh, X Twitter, whatever you call

[01:07:15] it all about how Utah is the, uh, ground zero for the new world order. And it will be a quite

[01:07:23] interesting. We will be the first smart state that will, uh, unveil all this crazy, scary technology.

[01:07:32] So keep an eye out for that. And, uh, outside of that until next time, stay free, my friends.